Magic Items in Pyramid of Shadows

Mustrum_Ridcully · Jan 3, 2009

Or they see it only as guidelines? The most important thing would be to get your +1/+2/+3/+4/+5/+6 items every 5 levels. If you got that, the rest is a just for fun (and according to the guidelines).

Question is, do you get the "necessary" resources for the 3 +x items per character?

Regicide · Jan 3, 2009

Bolongo said:
But if you go on to the P series this will be (somewhat) rectified. P1 is pretty good about the items - there's 12 of them, exactly as there should be, though the levels are slightly low. But it more than compensates with a veritable flood of platinum pieces. I calculated the total value of the loot as 262.950 gp - to be compared with the 78.000 gp the DMG suggests.

I would expect modules to be high on loot as it's probably expected that many/most partys won't get everything unless the module is very linear.

Nail · Jan 4, 2009

Regicide said:
I would expect modules to be high on loot as it's probably expected that many/most partys won't get everything .....

KotS is a case in point.

Dedekind · Jan 4, 2009

It's conceivable that Pyramid was completed before the DMG guidelines were in place. That said, I agree that +1 enhancement bonus for every half tier is probably the main thing to cover.

MrMyth · Jan 5, 2009

I posted this info on the same thread at the WotC forums, but figured it might also be of interest here. Here are the stats I have for Pyramid of Shadows, what it actually gives out vs what it should be giving out:

Total XP: 75,461
(Includes all encounters and three main quests worth of XP.)
This will take a group of 5 PCs from the start of level 7 to just shy of level 11 - essentially 4 whole levels of XP.

Expected loot from those levels, per the DMG:
Total monetary treasure: 30,400 gp
Total Items: 1 Level 8 Magic Item, 2 Level 9 Magic Items, 3 Level 10 Magic Items, 4 Level 11 Magic Items, 3 Level 12 Magic Items, 2 Level 13 Magic Items, and 1 Level 14 Magic Item.

Actual treasure found in Pyramid of Shadows:
Total monetary treasure: 30,030 gp (includes coins, gems, rituals, consumables and similar, including possible quest rewards for two of the quest hooks.)
Total Items: 1 Level 8 Magic Item, 3 Level 10 Magic Items, 2 Level 11 Magic Items, and 4 Level 12 Magic Items. (Includes all possible magic items acquirable, including one from a quest reward.)

Total Missing: 370 gp, 2 Level 9 Magic Items, 2 Level 11 Magic Items, 2 Level 13 Magic Items, and 1 Level 14 Magic Item. Has an extra level 12 Magic Item that could be upgraded to fill one of the empty spots, or could take the place of a missing Level 11 Item and Level 9 Item.

In total, pretty much spot on as far as the gold, but well behind on the magic items. And given the setup of the adventure precludes most ability to spend that cash, the situation is even worse than it looks.

Merifluous · Jan 5, 2009

Well, glad to see I wasn't crazy. I'm just going to add items to the dragon's treasure hoard, and maybe put a couple of the high level ones at the end...I really can't believe all the PCs get out of the dragon's hoard (if they fight it) is some cash...I wouldn't be happy with that.

Plus, so far my PCs have not spent a penny on magic items with the gold they have earned (they have just kept the vast majority) and it does not seem to be hurting them. So it doesn't seem like making up for the item deficiency in gold (like in some of the other mods) makes sense.

All goes back to probably my top complaint with 4e...as a DM, I really don't like how magic items are handled. I have to plan out the drops way too much. I do like not losing one session out of 4 to PCs shopping (in 3E), but I'd prefer a middle ground to what exists in 4e.

Nail · Jan 6, 2009

MrMyth said:
I posted this info on the same thread at the WotC forums, but figured it might also be of interest here. Here are the stats I have for Pyramid of Shadows, what it actually gives out vs what it should be giving out:

Total XP: 75,461
(Includes all encounters and three main quests worth of XP.)
This will take a group of 5 PCs from the start of level 7 to just shy of level 11 - essentially 4 whole levels of XP.

Expected loot from those levels, per the DMG:
Total monetary treasure: 30,400 gp
Total Items: 1 Level 8 Magic Item, 2 Level 9 Magic Items, 3 Level 10 Magic Items, 4 Level 11 Magic Items, 3 Level 12 Magic Items, 2 Level 13 Magic Items, and 1 Level 14 Magic Item.

Actual treasure found in Pyramid of Shadows:
Total monetary treasure: 30,030 gp (includes coins, gems, rituals, consumables and similar, including possible quest rewards for two of the quest hooks.)
Total Items: 1 Level 8 Magic Item, 3 Level 10 Magic Items, 2 Level 11 Magic Items, and 4 Level 12 Magic Items. (Includes all possible magic items acquirable, including one from a quest reward.)

Total Missing: 370 gp, 2 Level 9 Magic Items, 2 Level 11 Magic Items, 2 Level 13 Magic Items, and 1 Level 14 Magic Item. Has an extra level 12 Magic Item that could be upgraded to fill one of the empty spots, or could take the place of a missing Level 11 Item and Level 9 Item.

In total, pretty much spot on as far as the gold, but well behind on the magic items. And given the setup of the adventure precludes most ability to spend that cash, the situation is even worse than it looks.

Good post! This is useful stuff.

mach1.9pants · Jan 6, 2009

Obryn said:
Not that I've found in H1 and H2.

-O

Same here, I have found that even with a four PC party it is just hitting the 'norm'

MrMyth · Jan 6, 2009

Merifluous said:
Well, glad to see I wasn't crazy. I'm just going to add items to the dragon's treasure hoard, and maybe put a couple of the high level ones at the end...I really can't believe all the PCs get out of the dragon's hoard (if they fight it) is some cash...I wouldn't be happy with that.

Yeah, that is definitely where I put the greatest share of the items I added in, for much the same reasons.

I actually quite like the 4E system for treasure distribution, but I think it is a significant failing to have to deal with it in a pre-designed product that should have all this accounted for. And if it was just a small shortchanging it wouldn't be a big deal, but there is nearly an entire level's worth of equipment missing, and that seems to be a trend. Sure, it won't cripple the PCs enough to make them unplayable - it will only really register as a small setback for each character - but why even come up with appropriate treasure guidelines if you are going to completely ignore them?

Tony Vargas · Jan 7, 2009

evilgenius8000 said:
Does anyone know if Scepter Tower of Spellgard suffers this problem?

We've been through 6~7 encounters (OK, two were just RP, and one was inconclusive) in SToS and gotten nothing but an interesting archeological find and a few scavenged weapons.

Bolongo said:
But it more than compensates with a veritable flood of platinum pieces. I calculated the total value of the loot as 262.950 gp - to be compared with the 78.000 gp the DMG suggests.

I wonder what the total would be if you assumed 1 pp = 10 gp? One of our regular DMs made that mistake. ("Oh, that many platinum? That's a lot at 100gp each!" "Um, actually, 1/10th that platinum... er, uh, no, I mean platinum is going to be 10gp per. House rule. I'll never get used it it being 100.")