Can you take 20 in 4th edition?

Ninja-to · Jan 4, 2009

Such a noob question, but I can't seem to find it in the books, and did a google on it and nothing. So can you take 20 in 4th edition?

Blizzardb · Jan 4, 2009

There is some text about this in the DMG, although it is only related to "searching the room" - check out page 41.

I see no problem to let my players take 20 when they can retry and have a plenty of time and advise you to do the same.

Ninja-to · Jan 4, 2009

Blizzardb said:
There is some text about this in the DMG, although it is only related to "searching the room" - check out page 41.

I see no problem to let my players take 20 when they can retry and have a plenty of time and advise you to do the same.

I thought I saw it somewhere!

Cool ty.

CapnZapp · Jan 4, 2009

DMG said:
Unless the characters are under a time constraint, assume that they’re going to roll a 20 eventually

Yeah. Sounds reasonable.

But does this extend to skill usage in general? The lack of any general Take 20 rule seems to indicate otherwise...

Dalzig · Jan 4, 2009

It's up to the DM. I apply it to anything you can reasonably Take 20 on.

IceFractal · Jan 5, 2009

If you can retry it safely, you can "take 20", with or without a rule, simply by rolling enough times to get a 20. Thirty times or so should do it, if you need to declare it beforehand, and three minutes isn't that long. Take 20 as a rule was simply there to avoid unnecessary rolling and speed things along.

Kzach · Jan 5, 2009

You technically can't take 20. I can't remember if I read this in the PHB or a CS told me, but it was an issue in my game so I remember finding out... somehow.

The reasoning being is that every skill supposedly has a chance to fail.

The problem with this is that it also specifically states under lockpicking (as one example) that you can't fail at it and can retry as many times as you like.

Runestar · Jan 5, 2009

You should be able to take 20 so long as there is no penalty for failure. Definitely faster than simply rerolling until a 20 comes up, at any rate.

xCruelx · Jan 5, 2009

Kzach said:
You technically can't take 20. I can't remember if I read this in the PHB or a CS told me, but it was an issue in my game so I remember finding out... somehow.

The reasoning being is that every skill supposedly has a chance to fail.

The problem with this is that it also specifically states under lockpicking (as one example) that you can't fail at it and can retry as many times as you like.

your correct. You can NOT take 20 in 4th edition. Take 20 no longer exists.

And yes.. the lockpicking entry does contradict it, by allowing unlimited retries.

So, by RAW, takeing 20 does not exist, except for lockpicking.

Personally.I am ok with it... you SHOULD be able to fail at skills. otherwise, why bother with dice at all... If a player has lost the keys to the ox cart. The dice roll to search assumes that (wait for it) They are LOOKING for them.

Just assume the dice roll represents the pc's entire attempt to accomplish the task.

PC. I look for the keys for the ox cart....
DM Roll perception
PC FAIL
DM You look, you don't find them, you check again, you don't see them, you start moving furniture. Nope, You check your other Pantaloons, not thier either..hmm, Did You drop them when i was killing that ogre? (lifts ogre) nope not under here... Dammit, You have no idea where they are.

If a player fails a roll. that SHOULD mean he couldnt accomplish the task.

Kzach · Jan 5, 2009

xCruelx said:
If a player fails a roll. that SHOULD mean he couldnt accomplish the task.

Yeah, I have to agree.

To be honest, I'm tempted to make it undoable for lockpicking as well. Since when do repeated attempts at picking a lock mean you can eventually open it?