Tempest Fighter Build (lvl2)

Pickles JG said:

It is after an action point with a Tactical Warlord in the field plus Warlord's Favour plus Villain's Menace. My level 3 Warlord & a level 4 Tempest did 190 damage in two actions (blowing 2 Dailies & 2 APs in the process plus RoB which did about 2/3 of it). An honourable mention goes to the Cleric who Righteous Branded me to help set it up.

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Wow, that is powerful... but two characters each blew thier action points and a daily to do that. With that many resources sunk into it it should do hella damage.

Also, just looked at the power and in order to get the secondary attacks you have to wield a light blade, spear or flail and have a dex of 15... how many characters meet those prerequisites?

Pickles JG said:

It is after an action point with a Tactical Warlord in the field plus Warlord's Favour plus Villain's Menace. My level 3 Warlord & a level 4 Tempest did 190 damage in two actions (blowing 2 Dailies & 2 APs in the process plus RoB which did about 2/3 of it). An honourable mention goes to the Cleric who Righteous Branded me to help set it up.

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What kind of opponent needed that?

invokethehojo said:

Wow, that is powerful... but two characters each blew thier action points and a daily to do that. With that many resources sunk into it it should do hella damage.

Also, just looked at the power and in order to get the secondary attacks you have to wield a light blade, spear or flail and have a dex of 15... how many characters meet those prerequisites?

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Just because a power has certain restrictions does not mean it is not broken. Besides the great spear and certain other double weapons are quite decent weapons, and with rain of blows, they become overpowered. Besides, fighters, barbarians, rangers and so on can all easily get 15 dex - some from the start, but others eventually. It's not like they are likely to pick another encounter power over it.

Tuft said:

What kind of opponent needed that?

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Some non standard shadow thing in an LFR game. It had 300 hp - not sure if it was a solo or a higher level elite, probably the former.

Of course this is massive overkill against a lot of things but the secondary ROB attacks can hit other targets though they will not be so well buffed.
Greatspears make this easier as they have reach.

Jack99 said:

Just because a power has certain restrictions does not mean it is not broken. Besides the great spear and certain other double weapons are quite decent weapons, and with rain of blows, they become overpowered. Besides, fighters, barbarians, rangers and so on can all easily get 15 dex - some from the start, but others eventually. It's not like they are likely to pick another encounter power over it.

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Your right, it's not likely that they would pick another encounter power over it... because if they met all those prereqs they most likely built the character just for that power. Your also right Fighters (and so on) can get 15 dex from the start, but hardly any of them will.

This power isn't broken because it's designed for a select few characters that have to jump through a lot of hoops to get it. Even multiclass characters who might meet those prereqs easily have to burn 2 feats for it.

invokethehojo said:

Your right, it's not likely that they would pick another encounter power over it... because if they met all those prereqs they most likely built the character just for that power. Your also right Fighters (and so on) can get 15 dex from the start, but hardly any of them will.

This power isn't broken because it's designed for a select few characters that have to jump through a lot of hoops to get it. Even multiclass characters who might meet those prereqs easily have to burn 2 feats for it.

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It is broken because while it is intended to be used with "unfashionable" weapon groups & have somewhat tough prerequisites there are plenty of sound options in those weapon groups & the prerequisites are not high enough. (Well really it is just a level 17 power griefing the other level 3 ones).

This is a factor of:-
1) WOTC not quite getting the maths right with regard to multiple attack power cf powers with large number of [W].
2) Superior weapons pushing the envelope & the best ones being a little too good.
3) Too many stacking bonuses to damage & to hit that are alway on.

Each of these is OK on its own but the accumulated marginal benefits start to break the system. 1 & 3 are two halfs of an issue - if most damage boosts are 1/round like Hunter's Quarry then multiple & single attacks keep their relative balance. If powers & items like Iron Armbands of Power or Adaptive Stratagem boost all attacks then multiple attack powers gain.

The superior weapons also make stuff work slicker. Rain of Blows might not be too appealing with a shortsword (though if you add 20 to each attack it may) but with an Urgosh, Greatspear or Doublesword it is. Similarly the double weapons are the worst offenders with Tempest technique & removing the downsides of the class (low AC).

Notice that pretty much any Eladrin fighter will qualify. With poor strength maybe these are the true targets for this power, though maybe not using Urgosh). Half orc barbarians will also qualify & can make do with ROB until Storm of Blows & Hurricane of Blows take over .

Rain of blows is broken no matter what weapon you use it with, because the damage primarily comes from static modifiers, not weapon dice.

It's relatively easy with the current rules to get +20 to damage, and optimization builds hit 50+. And that's applied to every attack of a multi-attack power.

Who cares if you use a dagger to deliver the attack instead of an urgrosh? You only lose 4 points of damage. The power is still doing 80-200 points of damage (plus giving lots of chances to trigger on-crit abilities).

The same thing goes for dual strike (or whatever incarnation your class has of it). It's the reason why just about every martial striker is a half-elf with versatile mastery to pick it up. The ability to swing twice is far more powerful than anything else available, no matter what weapon you're swinging.