Archer Bard Build Help

RockLAX · Jan 14, 2009

Since I'm new and can't figure out how to search the darn forums I posted...Sorry.

Anyways my character died last adventure and I need to come up with something new for this weekend. I've always been intrigued by bards but have never gotten the courage to play one. That being said I was leaning towards some sort of archer bard type since it seems like it would be difficult at best to do a melee build.

So...

He can be lv 7. I don't care too much about race, nothing too crazy though. As for books and feats I can pretty much use anything as long as I can reproduce it to the DM. We have UA, Complete Ad, and stuff like that. I want to be able to be a decent bard out of combat but also want to be able to support the party with ranged attacks, we currently DO NOT have any ranged attacks in our party.

Thanks for any help.

StreamOfTheSky · Jan 14, 2009

Welcome to ENWorld!

As a Bard Archer, you're going to want the same stuff as any other archer -- Point Blank, Precise, and Rapid Shot feats are essential. Manyshot, Greater Manyshot (in the psionics feat section of The Hypertext d20 SRD (v3.5 d20 System Reference Document) :: d20srd.org even though it's a general feat), and Improved Rapid Shot (CWarrior) -- are icing. Not required, but nice to have.

Your medium BAB means you have to wait longer than normal for them, but as soon as you have BAB +6, try to get Woddlands Archer tactical feat (Races of the Wild, if you have it) and Improved Presice Shot (PHB) when you have the BAB for it.

You'll likely just be standing mostly still and full attacking, trying to add your inspire courage bonuses on as many attacks as possible. So, this thread may be useful for you: http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-rules/185372-inspire-courage-optimization.html
The Words of Creation one puts hard roleplaying restrictions on you and might e considered too powerful by a DM, so you might want ot avoid that route. Any of the other items in that thread you have access to, by all means check out. I'm not sure Bow of Songs is that important to a Bard Archer (while as Crystal Echoblade of Harmonizing should be a required pick up for any melee bard).

RockLAX · Jan 14, 2009

I was thinking about going...

Bard 4
Fighter or Ranger 3

That way I have the 6 BAB

With a human that would give me 4 feats then?

Shin Okada · Jan 14, 2009

Hmm .. Bard Archer.

It is pity that 3.5e bard does not have Greater Magic Weapon in their spell list.

Still there are several lower-level spells which help your archery.

Guiding Light (L1, Spell Compendium)
Targeting Ray (L1, Spell Compendium)
Cat's Grace (L2, PHB)
Heroism (L2, PHB)
Sonic Weapon (L2, Spell Compendium)
Haste (L3, PHB)

Also, consider learning See Invisibility (L3, PHB). If you can't see the foe, you can't shoot it.

For the same reason, maybe you should choose some race with Low-Light Vision. Usually, Low-Light is better than Dark Vision for archers. Unfortunately, Low-Light Vision spell is not in Bard spell list.

Shin Okada · Jan 14, 2009

If you dare to multi-class, Bard 3/Paladin 4 with Devoted Performer feat (Comp Adventurer) can be another interesting option. You can maximize the benefit from your high CHA and learn Divine Might feat (Comp Warrior) for increasing damages of your arrows.

StreamOfTheSky · Jan 14, 2009

RockLAX said:
I was thinking about going...

Bard 4
Fighter or Ranger 3

That way I have the 6 BAB

With a human that would give me 4 feats then?

No, that's pointless. You get feats at every third level. If you take any Bard levels at all, you won't have BAB +6 by level 6, and straight Bard will give you +6 in time for the 9th level feat. You could still do that for more feats, but it won't get you to BAB +6 fast enough to matter for the many archer feats that require it.

To answer your question, as a level 7 human, you have 4 feats (1,1,3,6) and Fighter 3 would add 2 (F1,F2) --side note: to paraphrase Thog, "Fighter 3 is a dumb level" -- or Ranger 3 gives you Rapid Shot, Endurance, and Track.

Shin Okada said:
If you dare to multi-class, Bard 3/Paladin 4 with Devoted Performer feat (Comp Adventurer) can be another interesting option. You can maximize the benefit from your high CHA and learn Divine Might feat (Comp Warrior) for increasing damages of your arrows.

I forgot the requirements for devoted performer, but generally you wouldn't want to dip into Paladin past level 3. Maybe 2, but I like fear immunity.

Herzog · Jan 14, 2009

1. Do NOT take a Strength lower than 10. Strength bonus does not normally add to ranged attacks, but strength penalty DOES substract! (learned that the hard way...)
2. If you have access to Spell Compendium, get Improvisation at spell lvl 3. (adding luck bonuses to your attack and damage....)
3. Get Melodic Casting (complete mage). It allows you to cast spells while performing, and allows you to use Perform instead of Concentration checks (freeing up skill points).
4. Decide what you like about this idea. Are you taking Bard for the spells? for the armor? for the bardic music? If it is anything but the bardic music, and you are thinking about multiclassing anyway, you might be better of with a sorcerer/ranger or sorcerer/rogue.

Last but not least: I myself am in the process of building/retraining a bard archer. (yes, the one with Str < 10 )

I've decided to go with Bard 8/Rogue 2/Unseen Seer 10. (CM) (but you can probably get it with only bard 4 or 5)

The nice thing about switching to unseen seer is that you have sneak attack and spell casting progression, and in addition get to add some divination spells to your spells known.

Most important one is: Sniper's Shot (Spell Compendium). It allows you to sneak attack at unlimited range for one round.

Combine that with DeadEye Shot (PH2) and you will be able to ranged sneak attack at any distance every round (as long as you have first level spells)

To be more flexible in your spellcasting, you might consider Lyric Spell (which allows you to sacrifice bardic music uses to cast spells) or Versatile Spellcaster (which allows you to use two lower level spell slots to cast a higher level spell).

However, also make up your mind where your focus lies. Are you a caster/supporter with some ranged combat?
Or a ranged combatant that can cast some spells?
Put a focus on the appropriate feats to support that, because I'm finding that I'm severily lacking in feats to get everything I would like...

Shin Okada · Jan 14, 2009

StreamOfTheSky said:
I forgot the requirements for devoted performer, but generally you wouldn't want to dip into Paladin past level 3. Maybe 2, but I like fear immunity.

I suggested Paladin 4 for gaining Turn Undead ability. Thus, Divine feats (Divine Might, specifically).

RockLAX · Jan 14, 2009

Honestly I want the bard for roleplaying reasons only, we don't really have any min/maxers in our group and do emphasize roleplaying. Some adventures will go as far to only have 1 combat per time. The spell casting is just icing on the cake. I guess if I had to prioritize why I am playing it would look like this.

Bard roleplaying
archer ability
inspire courage
spell casting

One reason I was thinking bard/ranger was for character concept only. Some backwoods traveler type who pops out of the woods every now and then into civilization. I was thinking some self reliant explorer type character who rolls into town and plays some music, charms some ladies, and then is off again on the next adventure. All the while being able to somewhat survive and fight alone.

**EDIT**
I'm actually thinking about using the Half-Satyr template from a Dragon Mag that would really pull the bard/ranger idea together. I'm sure people here won't appreciate it since it isn't the ultimate min/maxer but I'm starting to really like the character concept.

+2 Natural Armor
Low light vision
+2 racial Hide, Move, Listen, Spot, and any Perform
Disappointing that there is no stat increases though...

blargney the second · Jan 15, 2009

Consider going with bard/warblade or bard/crusader. If you take the Song of the White Raven feat, those classes stack for determining how powerful your inspire courage is.

You'll also find Dragonfire Inspiration in Dragon Magic. It gives you an alternate usage for inspire courage by changing it into bonus damage dice. I've seen it used to great effect.

As for other feats, Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot are fantastic with your built-in sources of bonus damage. Precise Shot is good as well, but remember that you can spoof it using the Precise weapon enhancement in Magic Item Compendium, and it can go on ammo.
-blarg