Converting Planescape monsters

freyar · Feb 24, 2015

Let's drop it then.

This doesn't seem to have anything else to it, really. Or am I missing something?

Cleon · Feb 24, 2015

freyar said:
Let's drop it then.

Okay then.

Updating Vacuum Quasi-Elemental.

freyar said:
This doesn't seem to have anything else to it, really. Or am I missing something?

Just the feats and flavour text.

freyar · Feb 26, 2015

The feat listing for fire elementals might be a good place to start for these. What do you think?

Cleon · Mar 1, 2015

freyar said:
The feat listing for fire elementals might be a good place to start for these. What do you think?

Well they're the anti-version of Air Elementals, so we should consider their feat distribution as well.

freyar · Mar 2, 2015

Good point. Shall we just take the air elemental feat progression? It's not too different than fire's anyway. Other than Flyby Attack (which the vacuum should have), I think the only difference is what order a few feats come in.

Cleon · Mar 3, 2015

freyar said:
Good point. Shall we just take the air elemental feat progression? It's not too different than fire's anyway. Other than Flyby Attack (which the vacuum should have), I think the only difference is what order a few feats come in.

We can't use the Air Elemental as-is, because the Quasi-elementals have different Hit Dice than regular elementals. It only makes a difference to their number of feats at the Huge and Greater sizes though.

Also, the SRD Air Elemental doesn't have Dodge after size Huge, making its Mobility and Spring Attack feats illegal because they don't have the feat prerequisite. We'd better not do the same with the Vacuum!

Air Elementals have the following (with the additional feats at each stage in blue):

Small: Flyby Attack, Improved Initiativeᴮ, Weapon Finesseᴮ

Medium: Dodge, Flyby Attack, Improved Initiativeᴮ, Weapon Finesseᴮ

Large: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Flyby Attack, Improved Initiativeᴮ, Weapon Finesseᴮ

Huge: Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Flyby Attack, Improved Initiativeᴮ, Weapon Finesseᴮ, Mobility, Spring Attack, Weapon Finesseᴮ

Greater: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Flyby Attack, Improved Initiativeᴮ, Iron Will, Mobility, Power Attack, Spring Attack, Weapon Finesseᴮ

Elder: Alertness, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Flyby Attack, Improved Initiativeᴮ, Iron Will, Mobility, Power Attack, Spring Attack, Weapon Finesseᴮ

Monolith: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Flyby Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack, Iron Will, Mobility, Power Attack, Spring Attack

I suggest we fix the feat prerequisite problem by swapping the Elder's Blind-Fight for Dodge.

Then all we need do is cut one feat from the Huge and Greater stages. Spring Attack is the obvious choice, since Alertness and Iron Will always crop up at those stages and Power Attack is just too useful. That'd make it:

Small: Flyby Attack, Improved Initiativeᴮ, Weapon Finesseᴮ

Medium: Dodge, Flyby Attack, Improved Initiativeᴮ, Weapon Finesseᴮ

Large: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Flyby Attack, Improved Initiativeᴮ, Weapon Finesseᴮ

Huge: Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Flyby Attack, Improved Initiativeᴮ, Weapon Finesseᴮ, Mobility, Weapon Finesseᴮ

Greater: Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Flyby Attack, Improved Initiativeᴮ, Iron Will, Mobility, Power Attack, Weapon Finesseᴮ

Elder: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Flyby Attack, Improved Initiativeᴮ, Iron Will, Mobility, Power Attack, Spring Attack, Weapon Finesseᴮ

Monolith: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Flyby Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack, Iron Will, Mobility, Power Attack, Spring Attack

Alternatively, we could give it Dodge or Flyby Attack as a bonus feat, in which case we'd have to give it an additional feat at each size category.

Hmm, that'd allow us to give it Improved Flyby Attack somewhere around Large or Huge. It's tempting, although it would make it a better "combat flyer" than an Air Elemental, which doesn't feel quite right.

I'll mull it over a bit.

freyar · Mar 5, 2015

That progression looks ok to me. If you want to get Imp Flyby Attack, we could delay Combat Reflexes and drop Imp Natural Attack or something. I don't think I want to keep piling on more bonus feats.

Cleon · Mar 5, 2015

freyar said:
That progression looks ok to me. If you want to get Imp Flyby Attack, we could delay Combat Reflexes and drop Imp Natural Attack or something. I don't think I want to keep piling on more bonus feats.

I'd rather just forget about Improved Flyby than do that, since Improved Natural Attack seems to be a "standard feat" for Monoliths.

freyar · Mar 7, 2015

We could drop Spring Attack instead to free up space for Imp. Flyby. They're almost redundant anyway. In fact, it's almost a matter of taste! Which do you prefer?

Cleon · Mar 7, 2015

freyar said:
We could drop Spring Attack instead to free up space for Imp. Flyby. They're almost redundant anyway. In fact, it's almost a matter of taste! Which do you prefer?

Come to think of it, there's virtually no reason to give them both since they basically do the same thing.

For that matter, what's the point in having Flyby Attack if you have Spring Attack?