Converting Planescape monsters

Cleon · Mar 15, 2017

freyar said:
Yes, that's weird. I was looking at the spell.

Shall we just use the DC 15 Spot check & +20 to Hide in mist of the gaseous form ability or add some of the other benefits of invisibility like the original text infers?

We could tone it down if we like. Maybe just say they have concealment in areas of mist against opponents who fail to Spot them.

freyar said:
But the running thing doesn't apply, since their movement type is flying anyway.

I'm not sure I follow you.

Quoting the SRD special abilities, the Fly entry has "A creature can use the run action while flying, provided it flies in a straight line" while the Gaseous Form entry has "Creatures in gaseous form can’t run but can fly".

To me that says that in the general case of "flying creatures" are normally able to Run, but in the specific case of "being in gaseous form" flying creatures can't Run.

freyar said:
Well, I had been thinking about making it a tendril attack(s) rather than slam(s), but you're right that it's easier just to stick with the slams.

I'd have no objection to changing the name from tendril to slam - it really makes no difference mechanically, after all - it was only giving one attack to the Large+ sizes that bothered me.

freyar said:
Mistburn sounds good!

Fine by me!

freyar said:
Hmm, I didn't get that from the original, but it would make them more interesting, I agree.

I wasn't sure that the "also" meant while engulfing or as an alternative to engulfing. But I'm happy enough to allow a slam during an engulf.

Good.

If I'm feeling energetic I might whip up some working drafts for these abilities once I'm done with work today.

freyar · Apr 13, 2017

Oh, you're right. I don't play enough, so all the rules (like running and flying apparently!) aren't too fresh for me.

As for "hiding," I'd just go for the Spot check and +20 to Hide.

Whenever you're ready to update the working draft (I sure haven't been around much!), we can see where these are.

Cleon · Apr 14, 2017

freyar said:
Oh, you're right. I don't play enough, so all the rules (like running and flying apparently!) aren't too fresh for me.

As for "hiding," I'd just go for the Spot check and +20 to Hide.

Whenever you're ready to update the working draft (I sure haven't been around much!), we can see where these are.

Okay, I'll update the Steam Quasi-Elemental Working Draft.

Upon reflection these are Steam quasis, not Mist quasis, so it ought to be steamy form and steamburn rather than misty form and mistburn. I incorporated that in the update, as follows:

Engulfing Steam (Ex): A steam quasi-elemental can simply move over creatures smaller than itself as a move action. A steam quasi-elemental can make slam attacks while engulfing but it can only attack targets outside itself - it cannot slam engulfed opponents. The steam quasi-elemental merely has to move over the opponents, affecting as many as it can cover. Opponents can make opportunity attacks against the quasi-elemental, but if they do so they are not entitled to a saving throw. Those who do not attempt attacks of opportunity must succeed on a Reflex save or be engulfed; on a success, they are pushed back or aside (opponent’s choice) as the quasi-elemental moves forward. Engulfed creatures are not considered to be grappled, but moving through the steam quasi-elemental's space is similar to the effects of a fog cloud spell. Each round a creature remains engulfed, it suffers the damage indicated in the Steam Quasi-Elemental Engulfing Steam Table. The steam quasi-elemental automatically damages creatures it has engulfed as a free action. It can act normally in a round - including making a full attack - and continue to damage opponents it already covers. The save DC is Strength-based.

Steamburn (Ex): A steam quasi-elemental can change the temperature of its body once per round as a free action, allowing it to scald or freeze anything in contact with it. The quasi-elemental's slam attack deals bludgeoning damage plus cold or fire damage. Creatures hitting a steam quasi-elemental with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take cold or fire damage as though hit by the elemental's attack. A steam quasi-elemental can choose to lower its steamburn damage to that of a smaller quasi-elemental or become a "room-temperature" steam that does not inflict fire or cold damage.

Steamy Form (Ex): Steam quasi-elementals exist in a state between liquid and gas. The quasi-elemental can flow through cracks of any size but can not pass through solid matter. It can not manipulate material objects, but can cast spells and benefit from natural armor. Steam quasi-elementals can fly through the air in the form of a cloud of vapor. Unlike gaseous creatures, steam quasi-elementals can enter water or other liquids and swim. An underwater steam quasi-elemental resembles a boiling mass of bubbles.

Steam quasi-elementals do not need to breathe and are immune to attacks involving breathing.

Discerning a steam quasi-elemental from natural mist or boiling liquid requires a DC 15 Spot check. Steam quasi-elementals attempting to hide while surrounded by mist, smoke, other gases, fumeroles and geysers or when immersed in boiling liquid gain a +20 bonus to their Hide checks.

freyar · May 3, 2017

That looks great!

These don't seem to need any further special abilities, so are we ready to move to tactics and flavor?

Cleon · May 3, 2017

freyar said:
That looks great!

These don't seem to need any further special abilities, so are we ready to move to tactics and flavor?

Excuse me a moment, I'm getting the paw-to-the-face treatment from someone reminding me it's time to feed him.

EDIT: Moving on to the flavour is fine by me.

freyar · May 24, 2017

Tactics: Steam quasi-elementals typically attack by engulfing their opponents and keeping them surrounded until they die. The quasi-elementals only use their slam attacks when they are unable to engulf all their foes.

Cleon · May 25, 2017

freyar said:
Tactics: Steam quasi-elementals typically attack by engulfing their opponents and keeping them surrounded until they die. The quasi-elementals only use their slam attacks when they are unable to engulf all their foes.

Isn't "engulfing their opponents and keeping them surrounded until they die" somewhat redundant? "engulfing their opponents until they die" seems ample.

There's a bigger problem with the tactics, or rather the monster itself.

Our current draft has Steam Quasis do a lot more damage with their slams than by engulfing, especially against a few opponents. For example, a Steam Monolith can in principle do 20d6+26 to a single opponent with its two slams but only 4d6 with engulfing steam. Not to mention that the 4d6 damage is entirely fire or cold, so 15 points of energy resistance would block it entirely.

As a result, for some opponents it's a lot safer fighting a Steam quasi from inside it!

Come to think of it, didn't we have a similar problem with the Radiance Quasis beam damage?

Increasing the engulfing damage should fix that.

The original monsters' engulfing attack did the same damage as its physical attack. That would seem the way to go.

Boosting the Engulfing Steam damage to more-or-less the same as the [individual] slam damage would result in something like:

Steam Quasi-Elemental Engulfing Steam Table

Size of Steam Quasi-Elemental	Steam Damage (Cold or Fire)	Save DC
Small Medium Large Huge Greater Elder Monolith	1d8 2d6 4d6 7d6 6d8 8d6 14d6	11 12 17 22 26 30 41

freyar · Jun 7, 2017

Oooh, right. OK, let's revise the tactics slightly as you suggest and then increase the engulf damage according to your table.

Description: A coherent cloud of mist or steam. ....?

Cleon · Jun 26, 2017

freyar said:
Oooh, right. OK, let's revise the tactics slightly as you suggest and then increase the engulf damage according to your table.

Now I'm thinking we should change the second line too.

Steam quasi-elementals typically attack by engulfing their opponents until they die. These quasi-elementals mainly use their slam attacks when they are unable to engulf all their foes. If a steam quasi-elementals of substantial size faces a single powerful opponent, or melee fighters with a shorter reach than its own slam attacks, it would rather use slams than engulf.

Updating the Steam Quasi-Elemental Working Draft.

freyar said:
Description: A coherent cloud of mist or steam. ....?

That seems a bit unexciting and I think we need some indication of its "near invisible transparency".

How about:

An eerie cloud of vapor so transparent it is little more than a shimmer floating in the air. Despite its apparent insubstantiality the cloud is coherent and seems to move with purpose, as if alive.

Cleon · Jun 26, 2017

Hold on a moment.

We haven't got the feats finalized yet. I guess we should figure those out.

I'm thinking the Dust Quasi is the closest match out of the other Quasis, so maybe base it on that?

Dust Quasi Feats
Small Dust Feats: Improved Initiative (B), Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (slam)
Medium Dust Feats: Improved Initiative (B), Power Attack, Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (slam)
Large Dust Feats: Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative (B), Power Attack, Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (slam)
Huge Dust Feats: Combat Reflexes, Cleave, Improved Initiative (B), Iron Will, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (slam)
Greater Dust Feats: Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative (B), Iron Will, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (slam)
Elder Dust Feats: Alertness, Awesome Blow, Combat Reflexes, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Initiative (B), Iron Will, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (slam)
Monolith Dust Feats: Alertness, Awesome Blow, Combat Reflexes, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Sunder, Iron Will, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (slam)

Maybe cut out the Improved Initiative bonus feat since Water Elementals don't have that?

It also can't have Power Attack at age Medium since it doesn't match the Strength prereq, so I suggest swapping the Combat Reflexes and Power Attack around.

Water Elementals also have Lightning Reflexes at Elder and Greater age, so I suggest we swap the Dust's Awesome Blow for Lightning Reflexes.

That'd make it:

Steam Quasi Feats
Small Steam Feats: Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (slam)
Medium Steam Feats: Combat Reflexes, Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (slam)
Large Steam Feats: Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (slam)
Huge Steam Feats: Combat Reflexes, Cleave, Iron Will, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (slam)
Greater Steam Feats: Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Iron Will, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (slam)
Elder Steam Feats: Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (slam), Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (slam)
Monolith Steam Feats: Alertness, Awesome Blow, Combat Reflexes, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Sunder, Iron Will, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (slam)