Sleeping City of the Old Ones; a 4E sandbox. Opinions please!

I am putting together a campaign, initially for 4E, to try the system out and to explore some ideas I have been obsessed with for many years, but which would have worked less well in 3.5E (but see later).

For a map of the first part of this dungeon (unfinished) see

YouShare - Free File Hosting V1.5 - Sleeping City of the Old Ones

(the quality of this file is not great but the original is 3GB, so apologies).


The idea is to create a sandbox style, non-scaling dungeon that is above ground and is sited in an ancient and semi-sentient City whose masters have vanished leaving the city slowly falling into ruin and their apprentices vying for control. Since these masters brought many races and creatures together for their experiments, the city is not really a city in the classical sense; it is a collection of closed courtyards, whose function is to confine and restrict access whilst allowing the masters to pursue their goal of arcane research. Hence the city was designed with the masters in mind and not with the comfort of its inhabitants.

To also elaborate on my preferred style, I will say that I want to push this to some simulation; I want, once the basic premise is accepted, to go the route of "historical fantasy" if you like, where the internal laws I have set up for the city are completely consistent and with a nod towards some monster ecology.

Automatic functions of the city will include;

harvester insects (or insect-like constructs) that gather food from ivy/vine-like plants growing up the walls of many courtyards and deposit them in "hives" that serve as a food source.

Golem guards and gargoyles that complicate simple wall climbing as a means of overcoming walls.

Each "room" of the dungeon is actually a courtyard and I want to push the idea that the Masters warped time and space in such a way that the magical laws underlying each courtyard can be fundamentally different. The mechanical consequence of this is that certain rituals e.g. healing or divination can only be carried out in certain locations.

Since this might actually one day see publication (I am so keen on this idea I am inspired once a decent GSL comes out to try for getting this out) I was interested in people's opinions.

Have you ever tried anything like this, and if so, what were your experiences? Does 4E breakdown if you completely forget about "balance" as written in the RAW? How far can you push 4E (in terms of encounter levels versus PC levels) before things become too hard or too difficult.

Any help or suggestions welcomed!

Wow; just static so far!

Does this mean that people have never played in this type of dungeon or just that it is not an attractive idea?

If you throw balance out of the window, 4E will break, just like any other system breaking due to imbalances.

I think PCs can survive encounters 5 levels or so above their level (maybe more with luck and cunning), but they will be depleted of resources. High level encounters that just use more monsters then usual of thier level will probably play "smoother" then using high level monsters, since higher level monsters tend to be frustrating if you don't hit often and they hit all the time.

Since you want to give each courtyard unique properties, it's advisable to allow them to be used in interesting ways that turn out to be benefitial, which will get used if the party feels overwhelms but might be left ignored if they feel like they are in their comfort zone.

It might be a good idea to offer hints on where the more dangerous regions are. (People might have heard of the Dragon, and the statues of people frozen in agony are a sure sign of a Medusa around...)

I think one of the important things of a sandbox is that there are different things to do and different things happening - if the players don't follow a hook, whatever was hooked happens witout their influence or interference.

It probably needs some kind of factions - what is going on in the city? Who is fighting whom?

This provides also a venue to make certain aspects more "scalalble". So, in one area, there are a lot of tough monsters. if the PCs were of the right level, they'd just go there and take them all down. But they are lower level, so they are searching for allies that help them in fights and of ways to attract some of these monsters (but not all) and lure them into ambushes. Or find a way to create friction between them.

You will probably want some political machachinations the PCs can affect, especially if they have to take down foes they can't beat in a straightforward fight. Of course, others will also try to use the PCs to their benefit and the PCs need to avoid being tricked into a war whose cause they don't share.

Thanks Mustrum; you are always helpful and insightful. How did you like the map of the city? Does it inspire thoughts of adventure? Any problems with it?


I have set the game up so that, although there is a master intellect running the city, most of the time, it is quiescient and does not take control.

This leaves most of the courtyards in the city on the lowest defence level, a level where the inhabitants, if they know the proper ritual (different ritual for each courtyard) can command the defences. These defences include golems, gargoyles, lightning towers (small towers that attack with lightning, anyone not protected by the appropriate ritual or not carrying a certain command object) and sometimes undead. There is also a type of construct that controls a small gate-tower. This construct will only open if someone knows the opening command and had been through the ritual of command; or else they will need a gate-token. This is a one-time coin like object that can be deposited into a slot to make the gate open. These gate tokens are a kind of currency in the city now.

Thus some low level monsters can have access to high level defences that mean that their base is quite secure. This allows me to realistically vary the threat level within a small area because attacking a courtyard would be a very risky business, thus powerful monsters would not necessarly over-run less powerful ones.

It also means that I can create human dominated safe areas inside the city; and this I have done.

The major avenues of the city are at a higher threat level by default, meaning that no-one in the city can afford to travel using these because the golems will attack ANYONE who does not know the correct song-chant. This is a song that must be continually whispered to suppress the defences in that area or else they will attack.

So how do people and monsters get around the city? Simple, most of the courtyards have a water supply because of two large square section pipes running through each wall. One pipe connects to each of the two huge water cisterns that are at the centre of the city. One of the cisterns cracked long ago and now one set of pipes are drained of water; instant roadway around the city. Of course, this does not mean these tunnels are safe...............................

Greetings!


Courtyard of the Vampire Lord

This series of courtyards is run-down, choked with moss and creepers, and shattered debris everywhere. The Courtyard of the Vampire Lord is occupied by numerous wandering, shifting encampments of human slaves/Half-Vampires that patrol the area, and dig about for any lore and treasure that can be found. They have several leaders amongst them, several are highly skilled warriors, while others are skilled wizards. They all serve the Vampire Lord that lives deep in a subterranean crypt accessed by an ancient tower in one of the larger courtyards. However, as powerful and mighty as the vampire lord is--his power is enhanced even more so, by the *seven* wives he has serving him. All seven of his wives are also very powerful, and dangerous vampires. Each wife sleeps the daylight hours away in a heavily trapped secondary courtyard, below the stairways and chambers of a refurbished tower. Each vampire wife has a guard company of lesser vampire women, and several warbands of human slaves and half-vampires, all loyal servants sharing her special mark. The vampire wives jealously guard their husband, and are always watchful for threats. The vampire wives hold a weekly council, discussing and updating plans, and working on increasing their group security, while they supervise the exploration of the deeper ruins, and assist their master in whatever desires he may have.

Courtyard of the Dark Knights

The mists part, and the horns are sounded! Rushing through the broad boulevards of the courtyards is a company of dark-armoured, mysterious knights. These fearsome knights crush and hack down anything in their path. The dark knights wear ancient, blackened armour, great horned helmets, and cloaks that blow and furl from an unknown wind. Their swords, battle-axes, and flails gleam in the dull morning sunlight as they ride through courtyards, slaughtering any creatures in their way. The dark knights ride metallic warhorses that have eyes of glowing fire, and hooves of bloodstained blackened steel. They sweep an area, hacking and cutting down whatever inhabitants are there, and have their followers loot the bodies, and search the ruins for more treasures. The dark knights lead several companies of ferocious Gnolls, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Orcs, Goblins, and several Trolls. There are 15 dark knights, and each dark knight leads a mixed company of 6d6+6 humanoids. Each company has their own banner, and their own insignia-badge. The dark knights are led by one great and powerful commander. However, the dark knights are friends and devoted to each other, and their mysterious commander. The dark knights' companies of savage warriors are devoted and loyal--disloyalty, cowardice, rebellion and the like are punished by being barbecued and eaten for supper! The dark knights control several courtyards, and routinely patrol their own perimeter with daily sweeps of the region, and standing patrols that keep watch over each courtyard. Beyond merely exploring the ruins, hunting, eating, holding feasts and revelries by glowing bonfires in the nights, the precise purposes of the dark knights is mysterious.

Courtyard of the Damned

The courtyard of the damned is ruled by several regiments of ferocious, bloody zombies, serving their wraith-lord masters. There are 7 wraithlords, each leading 6d6 zombies, 3d6 ghouls, and 4d6 skeleton-warriors. The wraithlords remain in darkened, shattered towers, ruling over their shadowed domain. As to what their purpose or goals are here, is unknown. The wraith-lords remain, however, and their followers are relentless in defending their areas from any intruders.

Courtyard of Screams

The Courtyard of Screams is occupied by a group of several tribes and creatures that have allied together. There is a tribe of 30+4d6 Harpies; their is a clan of 3d6+12 Manticores; as well as 3d6+12 Lamias. The three groups also lead a large tribe of white-furred Gnolls. There are 120+6d6 White Gnolls; plus 35% noncombatants. Most of the Gnolls are barbarians and rangers; some are also shamans and bards.

Courtyard of the Beast

The courtyard of the beast is ruled by a powerful tribe of Minotaurs that have recently moved in and taken control of. The previous owners were a tribe of orcs, but the Minotaurs crushed them in war, and defeated them in a series of battles. Finally, the last orc warriors were defeated, and the Minotaurs poured into the bouevards and courtyards of the orcs' home, and conquered their new home. The female orcs and the young orcs were all devoured over the next few weeks in great bonfire feasts. The Chieftain of the Minotaur tribe is a powerful warrior, and very intelligent and cunning. The Minotaurs have fortified their areas, and patrol it regularly both day and night, with alert, suspicious, guards that are all well-armed and equipped with excellent armour. The Minotaur tribe has 40+10d6 members, plus 35% of that total is an additional number of noncombatants.

Courtyard of Eternal Fire

This series of courtyards is controlled by hordes of Gnolls, that serve a large and powerful Greater Chimera. The Chimera flies about, raiding herds of cattle, roasting distant villages, and the gnolls sweep in and take all the treasure, as well as bringing back dozens of slaves. Most of the slaves are eaten alive in bloody feasts--though some have been kept as breeding slaves and as entertainment. The Chimera rules 6d6+60 Gnolls; the Gnoll tribe has 35% non-combatants, as well as 4d6 female human slaves. The Greater Chimera also has several Lesser Chimera as mates and guardians.

Courtyard of Ancient Statues

This beautiful courtyard features many lifelike, wondrous statues of different creatures and animals, from humans, to deer, birds, vultures, a bear, as well as several goblins, halflings, and centaurs. The courtyard is occupied by a company of amazing warriors--strange, half-scorpion human soldiers, armoured in black scorpion armour, and wielding their great shields, spears and swords with lightning speed, the scorpion warriors are relentless and undefeated. They frequently take on many times their number and leave the battlefield with heaps of the slaughtered and crushed behind, stacked in great heaps, and scattered across the boulevards, clogged with gutters and pools of dark blood. The Black Scorpion Warriors have a leader, and their leader is the greatest warrior of their company. The Black Scorpion Warlord serves the ancient Medusa. The Medusa's mystic gaze turns victims to stone. The Medusa is a gorgeous woman--from the neck down to her toes. The Medusa's head, however--is a writhing mass of deadly, hissing serpents, and her blighted gaze is death for any who meet it. (Alternatively, give the Medusa a large, slithering snake-body; but human-like arms, and human-like head) The Medusa lives in a palatial tower, stocked with regal carpets, amphora of fine wine, and chests of glittering, ancient treasures! The Scorpion Warriors raid the local roads, villages, and forests, robbing anyone they find, and slaughtering anyone in their path. There are 4d6+24 Scorpion Warriors.

Courtyard of Howling

This series of courtyards is occupied by a tribe of were-wolves! The were-wolves have great feasts at night, roasting alive any prey they have captured during the day. The were-wolves are powerful barbarians, rangers, and druids. The leader of the were-wolves is actually a mated couple--the male is a huge, towering barbarian of awesome prowess and great skills, while the female is a dark and beautiful druid. The were-wolves hunt through the ruins, as well as the outer edges of the ruins and into surrounding areas of forest. The were-wolf tribe has fortified their area with barricades and gates, and they have regular patrols and guards both day and night. The were-wolf couple leads a tribe of some 4d6+12 rangers; 8d6+20 barbarians; 3d6+12 druids; and 35% of the total in noncombatant children, as well as 6d6+30 wolves as pets and guardians. The nighttime hours tremble with fear as howling rips across the night air, echoing the cries of the prey as they are ripped and torn apart in a great, savage frenzy of blood and teeth!

I hope these are helpful, my friend.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Ydars said:

Thanks Mustrum; you are always helpful and insightful. How did you like the map of the city? Does it inspire thoughts of adventure? Any problems with it?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the link you provided requires authentication if I want to look at the map.

For the defense system idea - I would suggest ways to gain access to these defense songs without having to confront the entire defense system. Maybe "service tunnels", or a central archive, or just a lot of areas where people still travel around and you just have to capture and interrogate the right guy to learn a song. Maybe these songs can be changed, so a individual chant might become useless after a short time.

SHARK; TOTAL WIN my friend, to borrow a phrase from yourself. I only wish I could give you some XP; but the system won't let me yet!

I shall certainly be using some of these Sir!


As for this link problem, I am going to have to find a website to put this map up on rather than linking to the Cartographers Guild. Damn! I forgot about the sign in. Dumb Dumb Dumb!!

Finally fixed the link problem. You can see a small area of the dungeon here YouShare - Free File Hosting V1.5 - Sleeping City of the Old Ones

I would appreciate any more comments of ideas anyone has.

Quite interesting. I have been attempting to do something similar for my 3.5 game. In my case, it is a city lost to the jungles. Imagine an Indiana Jones type character discovering a lost Incan or Aztecan city. Lots of ancient traps, strange creatures, and more treasure than anyone can imagine. Of course, the danger level is so high that no one can ever expect to find all the secrets or acquire all the treasure.

A couple of things that I am trying to keep in mind for my game are...

Make sure that there are multiple levels for exploration. Both in terms of the physical location and in terms of the monsters that inhabit it. For example, I want to make sure that there are numerous towers and dungeons to explore; encounters can and will occur on multiple levels at the same time. Also, I would make sure that there are numerous "cultures" for the characters to interact with in a non-violent way - if they so choose. Maybe a lost tribe of elves or halflings that the characters can befriend. This will let the players find out what areas are really dangerous and give them a safe place to rest and recuperate. Finally, it allows for other campaign hooks to arise.

Make sure there are multiple storylines that can be followed through the complex. More so than just enter room, kill occupents, take stuff. Make sure that monsters interact in a logical way. It sounds like this is something that you have already looked at.

Finally, I want to make it large enough that the characters can never expect to explore it all in one campaign. Make it so there is always more for the characters to want to do. That will help add to the mystery of the place.

I hope there is some stuff you can use here.