Leif's Homebrew 4E, OOC1

Leif said:

Coolness! 379, eh? Is that the current issue? I don't guess I've read one since wayyy back in the 100's...

Got it! Thanks, Ryan! I passed it on to Scotley, too.
What?? Does that mean that you're NOT going to re-up for more character builder?? How can you pass a chance to send WotC more of your money??

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I know, I know . . .

It'd be different if I really liked 4E, but I just can't seem to get into it. And to top it off I was a few months into my subscription and they came out with the news that prices would be goin' up because of the new features they're adding.

Not saying I'll not play any more 4E games, but my character choices will likely be limited to whatever I get into the Character Builder before my subscription runs out.

Yeah, I really dig 4e (big surprise, I know) and from a DM POV the monster builder is an awesome tool... I love that it takes me 10 seconds to convert a monster up or down a bunch of levels the program calculating the hp, to hit mods, dmg mods, etc... coolness.

I also enjoy the CB and held off stubbornly for a long time, but now am glad I did, as it's saved me from buying each splat book to come out (Martial Power, Divine Power, Adventurer's Vault 1 & 2, etc), which easily covers the annual subscription cost.

It's not that I don't LIKE character builder -- it's very fast and easy to use and cool. It's just that I've ALREADY BOUGHT all those splat books (well, up until the release of Adventurer's Vault 2 - that was the first one so far that I've passed on buying) so if I don't use them for SOMETHING, it's just an enormous waste of money. I can't figure out whether I like 4E BECAUSE I have so much money invested in it, or IN SPITE OF that fact, but I do think it's a cool game that has it's place. 3.5 also has a place at our gaming table, and that's as it should be. But I do think 4E is a cool game. I just wish I could work up the drive and interest to get my 4E "campaign" rolling at full speed. :-( You guys might start to like it more then, but now, for many of you (excepting Ryan) your only exposure to 4E has been my clumsy attempt to DM it, and lately, I haven't even been doing it POORLY because I haven't been doing it AT ALL.

My inability to get into it might be the slow posting/progression rate. The other games I've gotten into have folded after only a few actions.

I think it sort of feels like Traveler to me - I liked the idea of Traveler but every time I played it felt more like a 'wargame.' An exercise in strategy and tactics rather than a role playing game. I'm not sure why it feels this way, but this part of it is definitely not just you, Leif. The other games I've been in have been the same.

I got the DDI subscription for the character builder so I wouldn't have to spend all the money on books - and so far I'm glad I went that route. As Ryan said, the cost of the subscription is easily worth not spending the money on the books (and Dragon magazines, and whatever else). I knew PF was coming out and that I wouldn't be able to afford both. And I knew WotC's penchant for putting out enough books to fill a small library every year, so I couldn't afford them even if I didn't buy the Pathfinder stuff.

I'm sticking with this game - though I've actually forgotten all the cool stuff Aimhirghin can do. And I'm starting a character for Ryan's LEB game - hopefully it'll be approved. So I'm not giving up on 4E yet, but so far I don't have much hope that it will ever inspire me the way 3.5/PF do.

I love some of the innovations of 4e in terms of game management and the way they do AC, Will etc., but I have to say that for my tastes they went to far with the classes and magic and such. I think there is a place for both games (or all three depending on how you count pathfinder). I don't feel the urge to abandon 3.5 in favor of 4. They really feel like two different games to me. I was more than happy to abandon 1e for 2 and 2 for 3 and 3 for 3.5, but 4e hasn't one my heart yet. The truth is, I think I enjoy some of the complexity and minutia in the game. Too much streamlining has taken the flavor away for me. I do want to run a 4e game as time permits. I want to design one that really pushes the role-play side of things just to see if it can be done. I expect it will be months before I get around to it, but I do plan to do it.

One thing I find I like in 4e there are very few "traps" that require a system mastery to avoid (read: toughness feat in 3e). It was way too easy in 3.xe to make a terribly ineffective PC with poor feat selection. It was also way to easy to build a cheese-y, spiked chain wielding trip-master who could have +17 on his trip modifier at level 3 (Vertexx made it here in a game we played together). My gnome sorceror didn't stand a chance at doing anything nearly as effective, so I just threw a magic missile or two and watched.

I do find some of the stream-lining to be bland, but I find most of the classes pretty balanced from 1st to 21st (highest I've played). Again a breath of fresh air from the absolute dominance of spellcasters after mid-high level 3e games.

I also love tactical games (not necessarily tabletop ones, but turn-based strategy games for the PC/console) so this side of combat is greatly enjoyable to me. I feel that the books focus very, very heavily on the rules of combat and very little on the fluff. I actually prefer this so I can develop it myself, the addition of skill challenges is nice as well, although it wasn't terribly well designed at first, they've improved it very much.

I find that before/after combat the RP side of things is the same as it was in 2e, 3e, & 3.5e, it all depends on your group. PbP is hard for deep RP'ing as usually to have a good back & forth going the two players or DM need to be online at the same time and keep the conversation going, otherwise it becomes stilted and disjointed. That's true under any system I've played here.

With Pathfinder I hope they've tweaked 3e enough to make it more enjoyable, but there's no group's around me that play (my local store only really plays 4e through the RPGA) so my exposure is only through Mowgli's game here (and my own). I am glad there are options around though as it's good for gaming in general (putting aside the constant edition wars threads). Anyways, I've rambled on far too long and need to go get some work done.

Oh yes, skill challenges are very cool too. As I said there is much to like in 4e. I am definitely not edition bashing. Maybe I'm just old and set in my ways.

Referring to the IC thread, does anyone remember which module the black tentacles originated in? I don't remember which adventure it was, but I remember my first encounter with them as a player being quite scary.

Not really sure where....my google-fu wasn't up to snuff either.

I didn't take it as edition bashing either.

Scotley said:

... I think there is a place for both games (or all three depending on how you count pathfinder). ...

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I wouldn't count pathfinder and 3.5 as different games. I actually prefer pathfinder + the awesome stuff for 3.5 (including Trailblazer) more than they both alone.

Trailblazer? What's that?