Proposal: Star Pact Warlock additions from Dragon 366

Oni · Feb 13, 2009

It's actually the second pact boon I consider the must have part. Feylock and infernal locks will never have wasted boons again. Once they've got their temp HP or moved were they want to go the rest goes to roll bonuses. Hellfire with Darkspiral Aura? Plus who knows what kind of pact interactions you'll get down the road when AP comes out.

Atanatotatos · Feb 13, 2009

Warlocks need a boost, let them have it...

Lord Sessadore · Feb 13, 2009

On Sacrifice to Caiphon, I don't think I'd have as much of a problem with it if it were paragon tier - taking ~7 damage to retry your encounter power is a lot harder choice than taking 1 damage at 1st level. It's a weird feat in that the penalty for using it becomes more and more painful at higher levels.

But that aside, the fact remains that people other than warlocks miss with their encounter powers too, and they can't do squat about it (unless they have reroll powers). I definitely think it'd be a stretch to say that warlocks miss more often than other classes; depending on the enemies they sometimes hit significantly more often. I just don't like effectively giving all warlocks' encounter powers the Reliable keyword. The point isn't that you missed and wasted your turn already - that would be the case whether you were using an at-wil, encounter, or daily power. It's that you get to try again, and again, and again, and again, until you hit with that encounter power.

It is very thematic for a warlock, and I absolutely love the flavor, but I just don't think the tradeoff is good enough for the benefit. 1 HP to retry your 2nd most powerful power isn't really a "sacrifice" in my book. Perhaps if the penalty was higher? Not sure how to work that though.

About Two Fold Pact, I suppose that by the time you hit Paragon you're using your at-wills less anyway. Though I'm still wary of letting a human 'lock get all 4 warlock at-wills ...

For what it's worth, I have zero problem with the powers in this article bringing 'lock damage up a notch, I think they need it too. I was just wondering if that's what other people saw too.

garyh · Feb 13, 2009

Lord Sessadore said:
About Two Fold Pact, I suppose that by the time you hit Paragon you're using your at-wills less anyway. Though I'm still wary of letting a human 'lock get all 4 warlock at-wills ...

The human might be the least interested in the extra at-will from Two-fold pact. Most warlocks seem to go with Con and Int or Cha and Int, not Con and Cha. So having that extra at-will with the lower stat isn't really helpful.

As an example, I have a human infernal warlock in another game. His Con is 18, Int is 16, and Cha is 12. His at-wills are Eldritch Blast, Hellish Rebuke, and Dire Radiance. You could give him Eyebite (or whatever the Dark Pact Cha at-will is) for free and it wouldn't ever get used.

This factor does lessen a bit as more pacts come out with more at-wills for each attack stat, though.

Lord Sessadore · Feb 13, 2009

Yeah, that's true. Maybe I'm just being overcautious. The extra boon would probably get used a lot more often than the at-will.

As another warlock player yourself, I'm curious what you think of Sacrifice to Caiphon?

garyh · Feb 13, 2009

Lord Sessadore said:
Yeah, that's true. Maybe I'm just being overcautious. The extra boon would probably get used a lot more often than the at-will.

Yeah, I'd want the Star Pact boon far more than access to Eyebite. Gives me something to do with by curse when the boon triggers (for now, I have the mandatory Rod of Corruption, which alleviates that issue some).

Lord Sessadore said:
As another warlock player yourself, I'm curious what you think of Sacrifice to Caiphon?

I think it looks very good. Certainly fits with the flavor, especially for my Infernal warlock. I'd probably take it at some point, but my warlock is level 3, and the feats I've taken so far (Improved Dark One's Blessing, Arcane Initiate, and Action Surge) have been bigger priorities, and even for level 4, I'm looking more towards Jack fo All Trades.

As for balance, I do find it a bit odd that it goes from so cheap to more expensive, but I don't think that's such a big deal.

renau1g · Feb 13, 2009

Well, my PC is a warlock also, and I haven't seen it in detail, but if it costs 1hp/level to reuse an encounter power, I'd probably pick it up at 2nd (or retrain my skill focus feat). Just my two coppers

garyh · Feb 13, 2009

renau1g said:
Well, my PC is a warlock also, and I haven't seen it in detail, but if it costs 1hp/level to reuse an encounter power, I'd probably pick it up at 2nd (or retrain my skill focus feat). Just my two coppers

Well, you have to have missed with the encounter power. And then you pay the 1 HP/level to get it back and use it again.

One thing to condsider is that it's strictly inferior to a re-roll power (like Elven Accuracy). First, there's the HP cost, of course. But second, you have to spend another standard action to use the power again. So, is the HP cost worth the difference between the encounter and an at-will you could have used at no HP cost that next round instead? I imagine that'd vary depending on the HP, the level of the power, and your HP/surge levels.

Atanatotatos · Feb 13, 2009

It's not strange that it becomes more and more expensive. At low levels you have only one or two encounter powers, so losing one is a big deal; when you're higher level, eve if you miss with a power you have plenty more, so for the benefit of keeping it nonetheless, you have to pay more...

JoeNotCharles · Feb 13, 2009

Note, BTW, you pay 1 hp per level of the power, not 1 hp for your level. So when you hit Level 12, you're still paying 1 hp to reroll your first level encounter power.