Proposal: Star Pact Warlock additions from Dragon 366

Atanatotatos · Feb 13, 2009

But that's because as you go up in level, your lower level powers have less and less impact. And anyway you're going to retrain them into higher and higher level powers. So you'll pay more and more anyway.

JoeNotCharles · Feb 13, 2009

You only replace them after level 13 - that's why I used level 12 in my example. I just wanted to make sure everyone was clear that the cost of using Sacrifice to Caiphon on the same power doesn't actually go up as you gain levels.

I agree that it sounds overpowered - you said it was strictly inferior to the elven reroll ability, but that's only usable once per round. Would it be more balanced if the power started, "Once per encounter, when you miss..."? Another option would be to increase the damage significantly (maybe double the power level? Or spend a healing surge?)

renau1g · Feb 13, 2009

garyh said:
Well, you have to have missed with the encounter power. And then you pay the 1 HP/level to get it back and use it again.

One thing to condsider is that it's strictly inferior to a re-roll power (like Elven Accuracy). First, there's the HP cost, of course. But second, you have to spend another standard action to use the power again. So, is the HP cost worth the difference between the encounter and an at-will you could have used at no HP cost that next round instead? I imagine that'd vary depending on the HP, the level of the power, and your HP/surge levels.

Ahh....much different. Also, is it a immediate or free action, as if it is a minor action, that also greatly diminishes its desirability.

garyh · Feb 13, 2009

renau1g said:
Ahh....much different. Also, is it a immediate or free action, as if it is a minor action, that also greatly diminishes its desirability.

Not described as having an action, so free I'd say, and you have to make the decision when you miss, as I read it, which means you can't wait till later to see if the situation comes up again and pay the cost then.

This is a free issue, link's in the first post, BTW.

Lord Sessadore · Feb 23, 2009

I'd like to keep Sacrifice to Caiphon somehow, but I do think it's too much currently. If we can find some way to tone it down and keep the flavour, I'm all for it.

Other than Sacrifice to Caiphon, are there any contentious bits in the article?

JoeNotCharles · Feb 23, 2009

How about just adding "ounce per encounter"? Then it's more balanced with the Elven reroll ability: it lets you reroll all your missed attacks from that power rather than a single roll, but you have to spend another action to do it.

Lord Sessadore · Feb 23, 2009

I think that would be pretty good. I'm the first to admit that it's rather disappointing when you miss with your encounter power, especially at 1st level when you only have one. Personally, I'd enjoy having that 1/enc re-try, but it's not so good that I'd feel dumb to not take it.

Dunamin · Feb 24, 2009

Yeah, 1/encounter for Sacrifice to Caiphon also sounds like an ok solution to me.

What about Crown of Stars (Daily 1)? Not sure there's anything wrong with it, but the part about Minor Action attacks for the rest of the encounter jumped out at me.

CaBaNa · Feb 25, 2009

I don't play strikers, but I have seen how underpowered (per damage) warlocks are comparatively.

Sacrifice to Caiphon may seem over powered because of the potential to try again and again, however if the warlock wastes their standard action over and again and takes damage until they hit... well let them.
It is a huge sacrifice when they could be laying down some of the partial control they have, or building their boons by blowing up minions with at-wills.

Making it once per encounter seems a waste, as that actually helps the silly sod of a warlock who wastes standard actions and HP for half the encounter on trying to deliver that one power.

alternately at higher levels, say 12, the price in HP goes up, and they still have the standard action waste. The power is less useful the more it gets used in a single encounter.

For day long survivability, 1 hp or 3 hp, three or four times per encounter adds up pretty quickly.

I'm fairly impartial to the final decision, as I don't play strikers, enjoy the two cents...

covaithe · Feb 25, 2009

That's an interesting argument, and it carries some weight with me. For this power to be any use at all, the warlock has to be rolling badly, and therefore not really impacting the fight. And I do like the fact that the cost ramps up with level.