Proposal: Star Pact Warlock additions from Dragon 366

The Digger · Feb 27, 2009

I don't have the experience with 4e as some of the rest of you but I don't really see too much problem with Sacrifice. Girth would quite like it although he might prefer more self-harming! Would the balance work better if the self-damage was level +1?

But is there perhaps too much emphasis being placed on 'balance'? How come so many fighter daily powers are reliable? :rant:

Why no reliable warlock Dailies, Girth asks humbly - not! He would have to survive to Epic level (Hoo Yah!) before he can get Student of the Athenaeum and get back his Daily - once!

As to the other feats. Personally I have a problem with twofold pact? Although it may work power-wise/game-wise/power-gamer-wise I think it's broken RP-wise. Picture the scene: We have some mad guy (say he's called Girth or something) who gets talked to by some geezer/strange bird up in the stars. That I can accept, sort of. But then some elven-type God/force of nature starts talking to him as well? Or maybe some demon or devil? What's with this? Has he left the phone on speaker phone or what?

In the description of warlock (last paragraph p129) it says "The pacts are complete. The rites are concluded. The signs are drawn in blood. and the seals are broken. Your destiny beckons." How can anyone interpret that to allow two pacts?

JoeNotCharles · Feb 27, 2009

So if you don't like the flavour, don't take it. Consider some mad guy (say he's called 7 Rabbit or something) who hasn't so much bargained his soul away as bought each individual bit of power with a separate sacrifice, which is so tied up in his homeland's religion that he just considers this part of the rites and doesn't even realize that's what he's doing. While he's exploring a strange, different culture, he discovers other powers that he's never head of who are willing to offer him things. Why shouldn't he be able to bargain with them as well?

Dunamin · Feb 27, 2009

The Digger said:
But is there perhaps too much emphasis being placed on 'balance'? How come so many fighter daily powers are reliable? Why no reliable warlock Dailies, Girth asks humbly - not!

You might as well ask why Fighters barely ever get the chance to target NADs (Non-AC Defenses) like everybody else. The classes all have their strengths and weaknesses. :erm:

As to Sacrifice, I’m still leaning towards Joe and LS’ take:

JoeNotCharles said:
How about just adding "ounce per encounter"? Then it's more balanced with the Elven reroll ability: it lets you reroll all your missed attacks from that power rather than a single roll, but you have to spend another action to do it.

Lord Sessadore said:
I think that would be pretty good. I'm the first to admit that it's rather disappointing when you miss with your encounter power, especially at 1st level when you only have one. Personally, I'd enjoy having that 1/enc re-try, but it's not so good that I'd feel dumb to not take it.

Lord Sessadore · Feb 27, 2009

Shall we get this proposal going, then? Which way do we want to go with Sacrifice to Caiphon? Omit it (for now at least), houserule it (probably 1/encounter), or propose the whole article as-is?

Dunamin · Feb 27, 2009

Right.

YES. Houseruled Sacrifice of Caiphon feat:
Prerequisites: Con 13, warlock
Benefit: Once per encounter, when you attack with an encounter power that has targets and you miss all targets, then you can deal damage to yourself equal to the level of the power. If you do, you immediately recover the power.

YES. The rest of the article, Wish Upon A Star: Some of the remaining content might be slightly better than norm, but it’s not too bad and warlocks could use a little help to get “on par” with other striker classes.

Lord Sessadore · Feb 27, 2009

Anyway, here's my votes:

YES: Houseruled Sacrifice of Caiphon feat:
Prerequisites: Con 13, warlock
Benefit: Once per encounter, when you attack with an encounter power that has targets and you miss all targets, then you can deal damage to yourself equal to the level of the power. If you do, you immediately recover the power.

YES: Wish Upon A Star Article, minus Sacrifice to Caiphon. Some parts might be better than the original warlock, but I think they could use a little help.

Sheesh, I'm starting to feel like Dunamin's "Yes Man" here. :blush:

Perhaps great minds do think alike.

Dunamin · Feb 27, 2009

Eeexcellent my enthralled minion! :devil:

*hides mind flayer tentacles with fake moustache*

Nah, I’d like to think that similar votes are a good sign that the proposal has actually been discussed to form some sort of consensus.

Lord Sessadore · Feb 27, 2009

Dunamin said:
Nah, I’d like to think that similar votes are a good sign that the proposal has actually been discussed to form some sort of consensus.

Haha, true enough. I have noticed that we seem to have fairly similar views on rules and such, though.

covaithe · Feb 27, 2009

I had a chance to read the rest of this article, and one thing stuck out at me and I thought I'd like to see what you guys think.

Fury of Gibbeth, level 5 daily attack power. Int+2 vs. Reflex, 3d10+int untyped damage, and make an athletics check or fall prone, both immediately and at the start of each turn (save ends).

I tried to find other level 5 powers comparable to this, and the best I came up with was Ranger excruciating shot and splintering shot, both of which do 3[w]+dex and have a persistent negative effect. However, those target AC, and don't get a built-in +2 to hit. Staggering Assault (Rogue daily attack 5 from MP) is similar. Am I mistaken in thinking this is one of the best level 5 dailies available?

I don't necessarily think that's a show-stopper; after all, someone's got to have the best power. I just wonder what others think.

renau1g · Feb 27, 2009

Well, considering that the Warlock is (at least from my experiences) the most underpowered of the strikers, especially with the ranger & rogue poised to get a slew of new abilities once Martial Power gets approved, I don't have an issue with it.