Proposal: Star Pact Warlock additions from Dragon 366

CaBaNa · Feb 27, 2009

(W) can be anything from d4 to d12 where as locks (so far as I've seen) never go over a d10...

That being said, the power is awesome, lends to the arcane class being sub controllers. just like the divine class is a sub leader. and the martial class sub striker. (or is the best striker in the game...Ranger :heh:

)

Then again, I haven't seen it playtested like Sacrifice to Caiphon. The once per encounter on that is a significant benefit to every low wisdom (willing to try targeting the same high defense over and again on the same monster) warlock.
I don't think it's over bearing on the wise warlock (who changes targets and hits). Good compromise all around.

Atanatotatos · Feb 27, 2009

Nah. It's single target, and allows a skill check. The wizard's area immobilizing powers are much better IMO.

covaithe · Feb 27, 2009

They're much better at immobilizing areas, yes. But a 5th level wizard is a long way from doing 3d10 damage.

Atanatotatos · Feb 27, 2009

Yes, but in the right situation and with some luck a power like, say, Web, can effectively end a combat. A single-target damaging and de-buffing power, as good as it might be, most probably will not.

Lord Sessadore · Feb 27, 2009

Well, if you want to look at damage, paladins possibly have the best level 5 daily: Martyr's Retribution. You have to burn a surge, but it does 4[W]+Str, half on a miss. (And I'd like to mention that I am eagerly awaiting this

)

Also, in Martial Power there's a couple powers that are close too. Close Quarters Shot is 3[W]+Dex, and is a ranged power that doesn't provoke from the target. There's also Tag the Prey, which can do 3[W] and ignores cover or concealment.

But yes, all of those target AC and don't have a lasting negative effect. However, I think that in total usefulness they're probably pretty similar. In addition, if the target is trained in Acrobatics they have a really good shot to not fall prone.

covaithe · Feb 27, 2009

How many monsters are trained in acrobatics? Searching the MM from the beginning, I find: Drow, Halfling, Kobold, Kuo-Toa, Medusa, Crimson acolyte of Orcus, Quickling, Rakshasa, Shadar-kai, Shifter, Vampire Lord. That's not many.

Also, a ranged attack that knocks targets prone is damn useful. Consider flying creatures. This power would make an encounter against, say, a young red dragon (solo soldier 7) much easier.

I'm not saying I won't vote for it, I just want to see some discussion. Which we're doing, so that's good.

Lord Sessadore · Feb 27, 2009

Well, it is a daily. The strength of tripping a flying creature isn't really in the prone part - it's in enabling the melee characters to actually do what they're supposed to do. For that reason, I wish there were a few more ranged attacks that could knock prone.

And the monster's Acrobatics probably isn't too far behind the warlock's 10+1/2 level+Cha. At level 5, you're probably looking at no more than a difference of 3 between the two. By 30th level it's probably closer to 6 or 7, depending on the monster, but that's still beatable.

It's definitely a good power, but I don't think it's game-breaking either.

Oni · Feb 28, 2009

Wizards get a ranged prone at first level as an encounter power if they want it.

Single target control is part of the warlock schtick, I don't see any problem with it.

garyh · Mar 2, 2009

covaithe said:
I had a chance to read the rest of this article, and one thing stuck out at me and I thought I'd like to see what you guys think.

Fury of Gibbeth, level 5 daily attack power. Int+2 vs. Reflex, 3d10+int untyped damage, and make an athletics check or fall prone, both immediately and at the start of each turn (save ends).

I tried to find other level 5 powers comparable to this, and the best I came up with was Ranger excruciating shot and splintering shot, both of which do 3[w]+dex and have a persistent negative effect. However, those target AC, and don't get a built-in +2 to hit. Staggering Assault (Rogue daily attack 5 from MP) is similar. Am I mistaken in thinking this is one of the best level 5 dailies available?

I don't necessarily think that's a show-stopper; after all, someone's got to have the best power. I just wonder what others think.

I don't see a problem. Yeah, it's +2 to hit, but it's +2 to the Warlock's secondary stat. Unless you're a githyanki, there's not a lot of ways to get 18's in both Con and Int (and no current Cha/Int races, I think). And as for targeting Reflex instead of AC like a ranger, I thought the +2/+3 weapon proficiency bonus made that pretty much a wash? And the d10's just put it on a level with the typical longbow/bastard sword ranger, too.

Lord Sessadore · Mar 2, 2009

Ooh, good catch, garyh. I didn't even notice that it was Int for the attack roll. I think that definitely makes it a lot less useful for most warlocks, and the +2 is at the least necessary to bring it into line. Makes it a bit of a niche power then, doesn't it?