John Carter of Mars

Kramodlog · Dec 8, 2013

sabrinathecat said:
Disney has no problem with firing people for expressing ideas (like the founder of Pixar), why should they worry about firing one director, or telling him he's wrong. They have all the $$$. They can do what they want. Disney Corp is a giant monster within the industry: nearly a monolith. No one is going to stand up to them and say "no" or not be willing to work for them if they tease with a job offer and some $.

Ask them, not me.

All fantasy novels are about farmers going on quests to rescue princesses with their magical mcguffin powers? And you say you've read some of the 80s/90s D&D books? Are you sure? Those two statements show that one view or the other is not correct. And the Fantasy genre has evolved since the 1930s. (Hollywood doesn't really understand the fantasy genre, but that's another matter.)

So you're saying fantasy novels are not repetitive? I'll ask you this:

are you deliberately baiting?

Kramodlog · Dec 8, 2013

Dannyalcatraz said:
Not good enough. At best, you're aping the opinions of others who may or may no have actually read the book. (Which, IMHO, was deservedly a classic of its genre.)

You are saying Nellsir didn't read the book? "So...basically you're saying don't make the movie anything like the book? Because that's the book." Post #26

Throwing a lot of money at a promotions campaign does not make it a good promotions campaign.

It means there was a lot of visibility and promotion.

As for letting people know its a classic, at the very least, it informs people up-front that's they are not going to be watching something derivative.

You never saw a Hollywood film, have you?

Which is not necessarily the best plan.

Tell that to Disney.

Power, of any kind, is pointless if it is not properly controlled. And just because someone has success in one arena doesn't mean it will necessarily translate into success in another similar area.

Tell that to Disney.

Even the best writer, director or producer needs someone to tell him if somthing isn't working, even if it's just the editor or a beancounter. Sometimes, an expenditure request must be met with a firm "No."

Tell that to Disney.

And original animated kiddie films are very different from live-action adaptations of classic pulp Sci-fantasy. You don't handle he actors he same way, at the very least.

Tell that to Disney.

No. There is no direct correlation between movie quality and the money spent making it.

You don't say.

And that goes for each and every detail of he process. Just because you spend a bunch of money on the CGI doesn't mean you're getting CGI. (And the CGI quality was one of the knocks on this film.)

Tell me more, professor.

IMHO, the source material is pretty good. Perhaps you should read it.

Nice troll.

I'm not. I'm saying that a bad marketing campaign can kill a film regardless of its quality.

The quality of a film does the best of jobs. Ever heard of sleeper hits?

(Personally, I rarely look online for anything beyond a movie's casting, and almost NEVER look at online trailers.)

Ah yes. Personal experience. The most powerful of arguments.

Hell's bells- they didn't even use obvious options like "...of Mars", or "Edgar Rice Borroughs'..." as part of the title.

The Curse of Mars that I already linked and an unknown author aren't selling points. I can't remember, but was J.R.R. Tolkien's name used to promote the Lord of the Ring?

sabrinathecat · Dec 8, 2013

goldomark said:
Ask them, not me.

So you're saying fantasy novels are not repetitive? I'll ask you this:

BAD fantasy novels can be repetitive, yes. But they don't all follow the same formula. In fact, there are about a dozen different formulas out there. And a GOOD writer can even take an old formula and breathe new life into it. That is kinda the point. An even better writer will make it so that you don't recognize the formula. A truly great writer will create something new, which may become the next formula. Sure, but cutting your self off from all fantasy novels, you miss the bad ones, but you also miss the good ones.

And you still haven't answered my question. Based on what you have said, and the way you have blatantly twisted and/or misrepresented people's arguments, I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask, and I would like a simple, direct answer: Are you deliberately baiting?

sabrinathecat · Dec 8, 2013

goldomark said:
It means there was a lot of visibility and promotion.

No, it means a lot of money was spent. It was not spent well, and the campaign was not designed well.

goldomark said:
Tell that to Disney.
Tell that to Disney.
Tell that to Disney.
Tell that to Disney.

Kinda the point: Disney doesn't get it. Neither did Lucas, which was why RotJ was disappointing, and the prequels flat out sucked--almost as bad as IJatCS.

goldomark said:
Nice troll.

What is trolling about asking you to read a book?

goldomark said:
The quality of a film does the best of jobs. Ever heard of sleeper hits?

Sleeper Hits: movies that didn't make any money in the box office, but were good anyway? Or that found their audience later in the niche market after going to DVD? Yeah, noting convinces executives like a movie that doesn't make money.

goldomark said:
Ah yes. Personal experience. The most powerful of arguments.

He isn't offering it as an argument. He is offering an example. And he isn't alone, in this case.

goldomark said:
The Curse of Mars that I already linked and an unknown author aren't selling points. I can't remember, but was J.R.R. Tolkien's name used to promote the Lord of the Ring?

Yeah, actually, it was listed on the posters--the ones I saw, anyway. Or is that also "personal experience" to be so readily dismissed?

You know what, never mind. I do not need an answer to my question. You are so obviously trolling and baiting. That is the only possible explanation for your attitude. Congratulations: you are the first person on this board that I feel compelled to put on my Ignore list.

Kramodlog · Dec 8, 2013

sabrinathecat said:
No, it means a lot of money was spent. It was not spent well, and the campaign was not designed well.

You are not contradicting me.

Kinda the point: Disney doesn't get it. Neither did Lucas, which was why RotJ was disappointing, and the prequels flat out sucked--almost as bad as IJatCS.

Sure, Disney is so out of it will go bankrupt in 3... 2... 1...

What is trolling about asking you to read a book?

Cause he is asking to read a book that is out dated.

Sleeper Hits: movies that didn't make any money in the box office, but were good anyway?

Nope, try again.

He isn't offering it as an argument. He is offering an example. And he isn't alone, in this case.

Lol.

[quote You are so obviously trolling and baiting. That is the only possible explanation for your attitude. [/quote]Right, cause JC of Mars can't just suck. How dare I.

Kramodlog · Dec 8, 2013

sabrinathecat said:
In fact, there are about a dozen different formulas out there

Thank you for making my point.

And you still haven't answered my question. Based on what you have said, and the way you have blatantly twisted and/or misrepresented people's arguments, I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask, and I would like a simple, direct answer: Are you deliberately baiting?

Lol. Based on your posts, are you?

Nellisir · Dec 8, 2013

goldomark said:
You are saying Nellsir didn't read the book? "So...basically you're saying don't make the movie anything like the book? Because that's the book." Post #26

That comment was clearly in response to your comment about the tropes in the movie. Those tropes exist in the literature. That doesn't mean it's not a classic. You are the only one in this thread making the "tropes = bad" determination.
FWIW, I have read the book. And several of the sequels. There are a lot of sequels. I've also read a number of books by other authors in the same vein & genre (the swords & planet pulp adventure).
It's Nellisir, not Nellsir. N.Ellis.Ir N.athan Ellis Ir.ving (Found out about fifteen years ago that it should have been Elis, not Ellis. My mother didn't know at the time.) Nell is acceptable.
Anecdote: Nellsir reminds me of my maternal grandfather, who when asked what he wanted to be called by his grandchildren, replied "Papa, sir!" So I grew up with a Grandpa and a Papasir.

Nellisir · Dec 8, 2013

sabrinathecat said:
And a GOOD writer can even take an old formula and breathe new life into it. That is kinda the point. An even better writer will make it so that you don't recognize the formula. A truly great writer will create something new, which may become the next formula.

It's also possible to take a formula, follow it, and still create something great. The Fionavar Tapestry was written by Guy Gavriel Kay, who worked with Christopher Tolkien for...a year, I think? on JRR Tolkien's papers. And intentionally and deliberately wrote a trilogy that drew on The Lord of the Rings. It's a fantastic trilogy. His follow-up book, Tigana, is probably one of the two best fantasy novels I've ever read. I've read both several times, and I can count on two hands the number of books I've willingly read more than twice. (Tigana; Bridge of Birds; Fionavar Tapestry; Watership Down; One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest...that's all I can think of right now. :erm:

)

goldomark said:
It is not because of the genre, but because there is very little innovations in it.

I'll say this again: you've confused novelty with quality. That's the crux of the matter.

Nellisir · Dec 8, 2013

goldomark said:
Cause he is asking to read a book that is out dated.

That's not trolling, that's being informed.

Kramodlog · Dec 9, 2013

Nellisir said:
I'll say this again: you've confused novelty with quality. That's the crux of the matter.

No, it is that I do not like to read the same thing over and over again. Amusingly, you are not contesting how repetitive and uninnovative they are, you are just saying you enjoy it.