Are weapon mastery feats intended to be class-specific multiclass feats?

mattdm · Feb 16, 2009

Forked from: The Whip: experiences and advice?

Dragon 368 said:
Since the weapon mastery training feats require a great deal of focused training, each one is a multiclass
feat. Normal rules for selecting multiclass feats apply.

So, it seems that the intention here is that you can choose a single weapon-mastery feat in lieu of multiclassing. But that isn't what's written — the PH just says 1) you can't take a multiclass feat for your own class and 2) once you've taken a multiclass feat, you can't take a class-specific feat for a different class. (And then it's explained: you can dabble in a second class but not a third.)

Class-specific multiclass feats appear to be defined at the top of page
208 — namely, each class has one. Since weapon mastery isn't a class, clearly there isn't a class-specific feat for it, and therefore clearly by the RAW you can multiclass into fighter and then take a weapon mastery feat

On the other hand, it seems like there's no reason at all to make the weapon mastery feats be multiclass feats other than the intention of restricting them in this way — so it seems that must be the intention.

I'd ask Wizards, but their help form repeatedly tells me that an error has occurred and I should restart my browser.

Saeviomagy · Feb 16, 2009

If you ask me, the entire concept of multiclassing into something that isn't actually a class seems incredibly silly in the first place. Ignoring that entire rule doesn't seem like a bad idea.

mattdm · Feb 17, 2009

Saeviomagy said:
If you ask me, the entire concept of multiclassing into something that isn't actually a class seems incredibly silly in the first place.

It's bringing back prestige classes, basically. (Very small ones.)

Ignoring that entire rule doesn't seem like a bad idea.

Presumably the idea is to a) make it cost a significant resource and b) put it into a "safer" design space where there's less chance of accidental super-power-combos.

Any decent DM can deal with "b" in house rules; "a" is a bit harder to judge (but also more arbitrary in the first place).

FireLance · Feb 17, 2009

I'd say the key issue is the power swapping. I get the impression that one of the unstated design principles of 4e is that most of a character's encounter, utility and daily powers will come from his class. Even with paragon multiclassing, the powers from the other class only replace powers that the character would have obtained from a paragon path. Allowing the weapon mastery feats to swap powers on top of the regular multiclass power swap feats could leave a character with only one encounter and one daily power from his original class. It wouldn't necessarily be unbalanced mechanically, but the character's class identity would be diluted.

SteveC · Feb 17, 2009

Well I have one solution for you: play a bard. With their ability to take as many multiclass feats as you like, my playing around with the character builder suggests you can take as many of these feats as you like. I'm not sure that's an intended feature of the class, mind you, but it is interesting.

--Steve

Seule · Feb 17, 2009

I'm pretty sure that the intent is that it takes up the same design space as multiclassing (and as spellscars). That's how I've been playing it, anyway.

--Penn

Bagpuss · Feb 17, 2009

How does the character builder handle it? (I'll check when I get home)

SteveC · Feb 17, 2009

Bagpuss said:
How does the character builder handle it? (I'll check when I get home)

I checked the character builder, and the feats are listed in the Multiclass section, so you are only able to take one of them by that measure.

I am sad to say that my bard, even after taking the fighter multiclass, was unable to take any of them. Apparently the character builder does not treat being multiclassed as a fighter as being a martial class. So there goes making the ultimate weapon master as a bard. Maybe that's not such a bad thing, however, as it was a rather silly idea.

--Steve

Doctor Proctor · Feb 17, 2009

SteveC said:
I checked the character builder, and the feats are listed in the Multiclass section, so you are only able to take one of them by that measure.

That makes sense. It seems them that weapon mastery (and presumably implement mastery) are meant as rewards for specialization. Rather than picking up something like a Ranger multi-class feat for your Fighter to get a skill and Hunter's Quarry once per encounter, you could instead take a weapon mastery feat in your chosen weapon to become more... "Fighter-y" I guess.

SteveC · Feb 17, 2009

Doctor Proctor said:
That makes sense. It seems them that weapon mastery (and presumably implement mastery) are meant as rewards for specialization. Rather than picking up something like a Ranger multi-class feat for your Fighter to get a skill and Hunter's Quarry once per encounter, you could instead take a weapon mastery feat in your chosen weapon to become more... "Fighter-y" I guess.

Yep. I expect we will see more of these for other classes. As it is, the multiclass feats are a sort of "slam dunk" to take...if not taking one meant you could be better with a specific aspect of your character, that would not be the same thing. It would be a way, for instance, to create a specialist wizard or domains for a priest. Interesting.

--Steve