Use a free action after a charge?




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    Use a free action after a charge?

    The rules say a character is not allowed to take any more actions during their turn after charging. It also says free actions can be used any time, even during another player's or enemy's turn.

    I couldn't find any examples of free actions that you'd want to use after a charge (other than something like talking, which a DM probably wouldn't think twice about), but suppose for the sake of discussion there were a power that was a free action that allows you to make a secondary attack after you hit with any melee attack.

    If a character charged and hit, would you allow them to use this free action to use their secondary attack? If not, how/why do you distinguish this from another free action, such as speaking?

    Or, perhaps, you feel such a power would never exist. If so, explain why, and how you suppose it might break the game.

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    Ignore Venator
    great question.

    Also, how does charging interact with Action Point use? Can a character charge and then use and Action Point?

    I dont have the books or PDF's with me right now to scope out the Action Point rules...

    Thanks guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Also, how does charging interact with Action Point use? Can a character charge and then use and Action Point?
    Actually, the charging rules specifically say you can't perform any more actions on your turn unless you spend an action point. So that part works fine

    Thanks for the reply! Sometimes I post theoretical rules questions to help design some classes I'm working on . . . hehe.

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    It depends on the wording of the free action, I say.

    1: Bestial Armor (AV):
    Bestial Armor has a Daily power you can only use after a succesful charge. It is a free action.

    2: Flaming Weapon:
    Has a Daily Power you can use after a hit with the weapon, again a free action.

    Example 1 requires that you can use a free action after you charge, so I say specific trumps general. (Otherwise the power is useless).

    Whereas example 2 has enough normal situations to be applied w/o trumping the general rule after a charge. I'd say you can't use it after a charge.

    The question is, would it be gamebreaking to allow free actions after a charge?
    Even so the wording of the 'no further actions part of charge' is clear, is it intented to only prevent the usage of move and minor actions after a charge or all actions?
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    After a charge, I might want to use the power of a Paired Weapon to uncombine, or the Avalanche Hurler's utility Quick-Draw Trick, both of which are Free Actions. On the other hand, I could probably wait until the beginning of the next character's turn to do a Free Action, so mostly, it would make no difference.

    Smeelbo

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    Ignore Kordeth
    Technically, this should follow the "specific beats general" rule.

    General Rule: You can take free actions at any time, even on an opponent's turn.

    Specific Rule: You cannot take any actions on your turn after a charge.

    Even More Specific Rule: This power is a free action you can use after you charge.

    So, by RAW, unless a power specifically says you can, you can't take free actions on your turn after a charge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Knight Irios View Post

    2: Flaming Weapon:
    Has a Daily Power you can use after a hit with the weapon, again a free action.

    Whereas example 2 has enough normal situations to be applied w/o trumping the general rule after a charge. I'd say you can't use it after a charge.
    If the trigger is "hit with a weapon" then it is part of the charge, i.e. the basic attack (or other if using a power that allows it).

    Regardless, if charging ends your turn, but you can take free actions during another combatants turn, then there is no rule preventing you from taking a free actin after a charge.
    Last edited by Mort_Q; Sunday, 22nd February, 2009 at 07:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mort_Q View Post
    If the trigger is "hit with a weapon" then it is part of the charge, i.e. the basic attack (or other if using a power that allows it).

    Regardless, if charging ends your turn, but you can take free actions during another combatants turn, then there is no rule preventing you from taking a free actin after a charge.
    Yeah, except in the case of the flaming weapon the free action has to be taken IMMEDIATELY after you hit with the weapon. The only other consistent interpretation (and the most absolutely straightforward one) is that you can invoke the damage ANY time after you hit with the weapon, like what, 3 rounds later? Pretty obvious THAT wasn't the intended reading, so the intended reading is 'right after you roll to hit and damage' (ie it must be the NEXT action). At best you'd be stretching that a whole bunch if you say "well, the next action is in the next guy's turn." But that is exactly the interpretation you would need to invoke in order to make it work after a charge, unless the flaming weapon power says something about 'usable after a charge attack' specifically.

    All that being said my instinct would be to allow those types of weapon power activations that follow the "as soon as the blow hits you can take a free action" on the basis of the mechanic representing the PC plunging his sword into the target and then it bursts into flame right then. Still, that is a ruling based on fluff, not game mechanics or balance. So take it for what its worth, it could open the doors to some sort of obnoxiously nasty combo or somesuch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fissionessence View Post
    I couldn't find any examples of free actions that you'd want to use after a charge (other than something like talking, which a DM probably wouldn't think twice about), but suppose for the sake of discussion there were a power that was a free action that allows you to make a secondary attack after you hit with any melee attack.
    I can think of one, from the Barbarian playtest:

    Swift Charge, which is a Free Action Encounter Power. If you drop an enemy to 0 HPs, you charge.

    I'd personally allow this, but YMMV.

    -O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obryn View Post
    I can think of one, from the Barbarian playtest:

    Swift Charge, which is a Free Action Encounter Power. If you drop an enemy to 0 HPs, you charge.

    I'd personally allow this, but YMMV.

    -O
    I have a barbarian in my game and he has used that power. It sounds overpowering but it is within the rules. He wowed us with over 40+ damage(daily rage power and uses executioner's axe) at level 2 which dropped the guy when he charged and critted then he used swift charge...sucked for me ...great for the group.
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