Use a free action after a charge?

fissionessence · Feb 21, 2009

The rules say a character is not allowed to take any more actions during their turn after charging. It also says free actions can be used any time, even during another player's or enemy's turn.

I couldn't find any examples of free actions that you'd want to use after a charge (other than something like talking, which a DM probably wouldn't think twice about), but suppose for the sake of discussion there were a power that was a free action that allows you to make a secondary attack after you hit with any melee attack.

If a character charged and hit, would you allow them to use this free action to use their secondary attack? If not, how/why do you distinguish this from another free action, such as speaking?

Or, perhaps, you feel such a power would never exist. If so, explain why, and how you suppose it might break the game.

~ fissionessence

Venator · Feb 21, 2009

great question.

Also, how does charging interact with Action Point use? Can a character charge and then use and Action Point?

I dont have the books or PDF's with me right now to scope out the Action Point rules...

Thanks guys.

fissionessence · Feb 21, 2009

Venator said:
Also, how does charging interact with Action Point use? Can a character charge and then use and Action Point?

Actually, the charging rules specifically say you can't perform any more actions on your turn unless you spend an action point. So that part works fine

Thanks for the reply! Sometimes I post theoretical rules questions to help design some classes I'm working on . . . hehe.

~

Black Knight Irios · Feb 21, 2009

It depends on the wording of the free action, I say.

1: Bestial Armor (AV):
Bestial Armor has a Daily power you can only use after a succesful charge. It is a free action.

2: Flaming Weapon:
Has a Daily Power you can use after a hit with the weapon, again a free action.

Example 1 requires that you can use a free action after you charge, so I say specific trumps general. (Otherwise the power is useless).

Whereas example 2 has enough normal situations to be applied w/o trumping the general rule after a charge. I'd say you can't use it after a charge.

The question is, would it be gamebreaking to allow free actions after a charge?
Even so the wording of the 'no further actions part of charge' is clear, is it intented to only prevent the usage of move and minor actions after a charge or all actions?

Smeelbo · Feb 21, 2009

After a charge, I might want to use the power of a Paired Weapon to uncombine, or the Avalanche Hurler's utility Quick-Draw Trick, both of which are Free Actions. On the other hand, I could probably wait until the beginning of the next character's turn to do a Free Action, so mostly, it would make no difference.

Smeelbo

Kordeth · Feb 21, 2009

Technically, this should follow the "specific beats general" rule.

General Rule: You can take free actions at any time, even on an opponent's turn.

Specific Rule: You cannot take any actions on your turn after a charge.

Even More Specific Rule: This power is a free action you can use after you charge.

So, by RAW, unless a power specifically says you can, you can't take free actions on your turn after a charge.

jedrious · Feb 21, 2009

I do it this way, if you have a power that the charge triggers, like bestial armor, elemental weapons and whatnot you can use them as if they were triggered normally, other free actions you make after you make saving throws

Runestar · Feb 22, 2009

If I used an action point after charging, could I use free actions, or am I limited to that 1 standard action?

dammitbiscuit · Feb 22, 2009

It's a free action, which you're free to take on anyone's turn. If your DM is being a stickler and saying you can't take any more actions in your turn, simply resolve the effect while the next guy takes his turn.

AbdulAlhazred · Feb 22, 2009

I don't think they were ESPECIALLY worried about free actions. I think they were more worried about combos where a PC would be able to charge and then use move actions or minor actions to back away again. The idea being that charging into battle shouldn't be some kind of 'hit and run' tactic that you use to get an attack bonus. It should commit you to duking it out with the enemy, at least for a round, and when you do it, its pretty much ALL you do that round.

Of course there are always ways for a party to develop the charging yo-yo tactic, but it will have to rely on other character's using their abilities to 'wind the yo-yo back in'.