Use a free action after a charge? - Page 4


What's on your mind?

+ Log in or register to post
Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 85
  1. #31
    Registered User
    Gallant (Lvl 3)

    Artoomis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    redmond
    Posts
    5,183
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Ignore Artoomis
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyken12 View Post
    ...It is a build that utilizes the Fighter feat Fey Charge ... the feat Eladrin Swordmage Advance...
    Analysis (with feats written out):

    1. Fey Charge: When you charge, you can use your fey step racial power as a free action to replace up to 5 squares of your charge movement with teleportation. If the charge attack hits, you do not expend fey step.

    2. Eladrin Swordmage Advance: When you use your fey step racial power to teleport to a square adjacent to an enemy, you can make a melee basic attack against that enemy as a free action.

    Reading these two together, the question becomes:

    When using Fey Charge are you using "your fey step racial power to teleport to a square adjacent to an enemy?" Since you "use your fey step racial power as a free action" during the charge then, in most cases, you could use Eladrin Swordmage Advance before the charge attack is resolved - in fact, if you use it, it must be used before the charge attack is resolved or it is too late to use it. The exception being, for course, if you use Fey Charge but do not end up actually "teleport(ing) to a square adjacent to an enemy," which might very well happen.

    This means you might use you fey step racial power in a charge, be successful with two attacks, and no have expended your use of the fey step power.

    That's a really nice synergy, though it did cost a minimum of three feats to set it up (the two feats mentioned here plus at least one multiclass feat).
    Last edited by Artoomis; Friday, 21st August, 2009 at 07:08 PM. Reason: fix typos
    Forward! We've got them right where they want us!
    Yes, there can be more than one right answer to a rules question! It can be an exercise in futility to attempt to apply a great deal of precision to an imprecise set of rules.

 

  • #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Mengu View Post
    Or maybe they just like to play by the rules.
    I think with the number of free actions from an item or feature that happen after a charge specifically gives at least room to debate that idea. Under the assumption that 'thems the rules" those items wouldn't work, because a charge ENDS your turn, they would need to be immediate reaction abilities.

  • #33
    Registered User
    Magsman (Lvl 14)



    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    2,819
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Ignore Mengu
    Quote Originally Posted by Flipguarder View Post
    I think with the number of free actions from an item or feature that happen after a charge specifically gives at least room to debate that idea. Under the assumption that 'thems the rules" those items wouldn't work, because a charge ENDS your turn, they would need to be immediate reaction abilities.
    Immediate reaction wouldn't work since you can't use immediate actions during your turn.

    free action works based on the trigger, as I said earlier. If there is no trigger for the free action satisfied by any part of the resolution of the charge attack, and the action is worded such that you can only use it during your turn, then you can't use it after a charge. Warden's mark is one such action (as are the two other free actions I gave as examples earlier, Quick Wild Shape, and Boots of Eagerness).
    Warning: This post may contain sarcasm.

  • #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mengu View Post
    Immediate reaction wouldn't work since you can't use immediate actions during your turn.

    free action works based on the trigger, as I said earlier.
    This is the problem: free actions work on your turn, a charge ENDS your turn. It is the last thing that happens on a turn with a charge, unless you use an action point. Now if you have an item, power or feature that gives you a power that is a free action triggered on a charge, it cannot work unless you allow free actions on your turn, because otherwise you would be acting on a turn that is not yours, which would require an immediate or opportunity action. Because a charge ENDS your turn.

  • #35
    Registered User
    Spellbinder (Lvl 16)

    AbdulAlhazred's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Vermont, USA
    Posts
    6,131
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Ignore AbdulAlhazred
    Quote Originally Posted by Flipguarder View Post
    This is the problem: free actions work on your turn, a charge ENDS your turn. It is the last thing that happens on a turn with a charge, unless you use an action point. Now if you have an item, power or feature that gives you a power that is a free action triggered on a charge, it cannot work unless you allow free actions on your turn, because otherwise you would be acting on a turn that is not yours, which would require an immediate or opportunity action. Because a charge ENDS your turn.
    There are two problems with this:

    1) A charge doesn't end your turn. Granted, it forbids you to use additional actions afterwards, but your turn is not technically over.

    2) You can still resolve the entire issue if you resolve triggered actions at step 5 of the triggering action (or in many cases they will resolve in earlier steps anyway). See my last post for the logic involved. This interpretation actually deals with (I believe) all the issues surrounding charging and free actions. It also does so without assuming that any old free action can be used in the middle of other actions.

  • #36
    Quote Originally Posted by AbdulAlhazred View Post
    There are two problems with this:

    1) A charge doesn't end your turn. Granted, it forbids you to use additional actions afterwards, but your turn is not technically over.
    So your turn isn't over, but you can't take actions. Is it just me or is that kind of like saying, "I'm not done with school, but I've gone to all my classes and don't have any other school activities left." It's essentially speechcraft.

    Although I see your point about resolving the action, a triggered action is part of the next action imo. Otherwise any free-action ability triggered by an attack is part of that attack. So Your second charge from swift charge is still part of the first charge. So you get two charges in a row.

    I'm not saying this is definite, just that things are not as clear as you make them out to be.

  • #37
    Registered User
    Enchanter (Lvl 12)

    Festivus's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Pasadena, CA
    Posts
    1,980
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Ignore Festivus
    My communities:

    Quote Originally Posted by dammitbiscuit View Post
    It's a free action, which you're free to take on anyone's turn. If your DM is being a stickler and saying you can't take any more actions in your turn, simply resolve the effect while the next guy takes his turn.
    But it could be important... particularly if you are talking about ongoing effects and the save that occurs at the end of your turn... that you take the free action before another person's turn and on your own turn. What if you had been given a +2 to attack on your turn... and you have a free action to attack with? You want to attack with that free action on your turn, not someone elses where you lose the +2. I am sure there are more examples... but as a DM, I usually rule that unless it explicitly says "after a charge" on the free action, it doesn't happen on your turn.

  • #38
    Registered User
    Acolyte (Lvl 2)

    Orcus Porkus's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    266
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Ignore Orcus Porkus
    Some of you guys don't read the rules, but make gigantic assumptions about them. I really don't understand your problem with free actions. The rule:
    Free Action

    Free actions take almost no time or effort. You can take as many free actions as you want during your or another combatant’s turn. The DM can restrict the number of free actions in a turn. Examples: speaking a few sentences, dropping a held item, letting go of a grabbed enemy.
    Can it get any simpler than that? The only restriction is the DM. He can call it quits when a PC is abusing them. the free attack during or after charge is certainly not an abuse.

  • #39
    Registered User
    Minor Trickster (Lvl 4)

    Mort_Q's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, AB, Canada
    Posts
    1,769
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Ignore Mort_Q
    Quote Originally Posted by Orcus Porkus View Post
    the free attack during or after charge is certainly not an abuse.
    People keep using the word certainly, when things obviously aren't certain, else we wouldn't have such long threads about them.

    After the charge is not allowed, as per the charge rules.

    After you resolve a charge attack, you can’t take any further actions this turn
    A free action is still an action.

    During the charge is arguable.

  • #40
    Registered User
    Acolyte (Lvl 2)

    Orcus Porkus's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    266
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Ignore Orcus Porkus
    Quote Originally Posted by Mort_Q View Post
    People keep using the word certainly, when things obviously aren't certain, else we wouldn't have such long threads about them.

    After the charge is not allowed, as per the charge rules.



    A free action is still an action.

    During the charge is arguable.
    then the free action simply takes place after the turn ends.
    Taking away the free attack the PC rightfully earned is totally unpracticable and unfun. Any DM here who actually does that? I prefer common sense.

  • + Log in or register to post
    Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast

    Similar Threads

    1. Move Action then Charge Standard Action? Is this Possible?
      By tanin in forum Older D&D Editions and OSR Gaming
      Replies: 7
      Last Post: Tuesday, 1st July, 2008, 06:03 AM
    2. Charge Action Questions
      By Exquisite Dead Guy in forum Older D&D Editions and OSR Gaming
      Replies: 3
      Last Post: Thursday, 26th June, 2008, 03:11 AM
    3. [3.0] Charge and Partial Action
      By Artoomis in forum Older D&D Editions and OSR Gaming
      Replies: 30
      Last Post: Wednesday, 23rd July, 2003, 07:37 PM
    4. Partial charge vs. Standard Action charge
      By Jotun in forum Older D&D Editions and OSR Gaming
      Replies: 12
      Last Post: Tuesday, 17th September, 2002, 07:54 PM
    5. run away then charge? one actioN?
      By Idayen Relanite in forum Older D&D Editions and OSR Gaming
      Replies: 20
      Last Post: Saturday, 17th August, 2002, 09:51 AM

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •