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Saturday, 22nd August, 2009, 06:57 AM #41
Acolyte (Lvl 2)
We don't allow it in our games. We prefer common sense when it doesn't go against the rules. The rules are that when you charge you're done taking actions on your turn. Certainly everyone can see that.
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Saturday, 22nd August, 2009, 10:33 AM #42
Magsman (Lvl 14)
Um, no a Warden shouldn't be able to take his action to mark after the charge. He's already getting two movements and an attack. Good enough.
If it's a 'No Action' you can do it after the charge. If it is not a No Action, you cannot. It's really as simple as that: Anything that denies actions denies free actions.
Saturday, 22nd August, 2009, 12:30 PM #43
Saturday, 22nd August, 2009, 12:44 PM #44
Lama (Lvl 13)
Your turn isn't over, and you can't take actions, but your enemies and allies still could, if they have any appropriate free actions available to them. While I can't see it be a very common scenario, there could very well be times when it would make a difference for some other character to take a free action in the space between your charge and the end of your turn.
Using the previously mentioned Nature's Wrath after a charge mark has come up several times in our game: it states, "Once during each of your turns, you can mark each adjacent enemy as a free action."
So, the Warden charges into the middle of a group of enemies and resolves his attack. He cannot mark them, since the charge prevents him from taking any additional actions on his turn. So, he ends his turn, and still can't mark because it's no longer his turn, even though normally you can take free actions outside your turn.
Saturday, 22nd August, 2009, 12:51 PM #45
Lama (Lvl 13)
Saturday, 22nd August, 2009, 01:11 PM #46
Cutpurse (Lvl 5)
Spending an action point is a clear exception to the general rule that you can't take actions after a charge. The text is ambiguous as to whether the exception lets you a) spend the action point but not benefit from the extra action, b) spend the action point and benefit from the extra action only, or c) spend the action point and lift the restriction on taking other actions entirely. I think a) is the least intuitive interpretation, followed by c), with b) being almost certainly what was intended. The corner cases where spending an action point would be relevant if you couldn't take the extra action don't justify creating the exception in the first place.Originally Posted by PHB, p. 288
Saturday, 22nd August, 2009, 01:31 PM #47
Lama (Lvl 13)
Saturday, 22nd August, 2009, 02:04 PM #48
Acolyte (Lvl 2)
I say: The rules grant the barbarian the rampage attack, and swift charge. He earned those actions. Taking those away from him is a huge deal. It happens a lot, because barbarians charge a lot. You guys are basically invalidating half of those free attacks (the barbarian rightfully earned). You have two ways to justify that he gets these attacks despite the limiting charging rules: 1) Swift Charge and Rampage say so. You get the attacks - period. 2) The free action takes place after your turn is technically over. In limbo, or at the start of the next combatant's turn. Nothing game breaking, and only fair. As I said, nixing the barbarian's crucial class features is a really bad idea. Totally unfun!
Edit: Justification #3) The free action is "nested" inside the triggering action. It can't be separated from the trigger. In other words, the free action becomes part of the charge attack.
Last edited by Orcus Porkus; Saturday, 22nd August, 2009 at 02:09 PM.
Saturday, 22nd August, 2009, 02:06 PM #49
Minor Trickster (Lvl 4)
Here's the thing. Spending an action point is itself a free action. A non-triggered free action, to boot. Now, yes, Charge does specifically say that spending an action point is allowed after the charge is completed, but doesn't this imply that other free actions are also allowed?
Going on the premise that only free actions are allowed if they are triggered, you could take some free actions triggered by your extra action. However, you couldn't use Elven Accuracy if you used your AP to take another attack, as this isn't a triggered action. This doesn't seem right to me.
It just seems silly to me that the rules were intended to allow you to spend certain types of free actions, and not others.
Age and Treachery beat youth and skill every time.
Saturday, 22nd August, 2009, 02:08 PM #50
The way we play is pretty simple we that after a charge you lose any minor, move and standard actions you have left. So if you action point then charge bad times......the reason we chose this way is that without allowing free actions you cannot use the action point at all much less the action it generates. As the rules are quite unclear on this. We thought the was a simpler and more fun way to handle this rule. It also allows the use of any free action the can be used to gain another standard, move, or minor action to work as well.