Use a free action after a charge?

Flipguarder · Aug 23, 2009

DracoSuave said:
Oh yes, if you have free actions during the charge itself (and that includes the attack and damage resolution) then by all means, use them.

I agree but how far does that go? Specifically asking about swift charge.

Swift Charge Barbarian Feature
As your foe falls, you rush toward your next victim.
Encounter ✦ Primal
Free Action Personal
Trigger: Your attack reduces an enemy to 0 hit points
Effect: You charge an enemy.

AbdulAlhazred · Aug 23, 2009

Swift Charge would be fine. And by my interpretation if you triggered yet another thing during the swift charge itself, you could do that too (since it would resolve before SC resolves which in turn has to resolve before the original charge resolves, etc). I guess you could probably work up some example which combined multiple triggered actions on the original charge and the first one was a Swift Charge and then you could start wondering about exactly what is allowed to happen next. Ones head could explode due to over analysis as well.

Flipguarder · Aug 23, 2009

AbdulAlhazred said:
Swift Charge would be fine. And by my interpretation if you triggered yet another thing during the swift charge itself, you could do that too (since it would resolve before SC resolves which in turn has to resolve before the original charge resolves, etc). I guess you could probably work up some example which combined multiple triggered actions on the original charge and the first one was a Swift Charge and then you could start wondering about exactly what is allowed to happen next. Ones head could explode due to over analysis as well.

I have a huge problem with a barbarian stacking 80 things on top of a charge and refusing to let me mark after a charge. I understand the logic of it, but AT MOST, a charge gets one triggered free action on it when I DM.

jeffhartsell · Aug 23, 2009

Free actions I don't think are immediate interrupt actions, so you have to resolve the triggering action. As such, if a barbarian reduced a foe to 0 with a charge, no other actions (other than via an action point) can be taken, thus no swift charge. Same goes for the warden marking as a free action.

This gets tricky if you had a free action that triggered on a hit or on damage. In that case you could trigger the action during the charge and it will resolve after you resolve the charge.

A foe being reduced to zero is the result of the charge action, and a barbarian can't take any non-action point actions at that point.

I wonder how this works if you use an action point to charge at the begining of your turn? Does an action point charge end your turn?

Orcus Porkus · Aug 24, 2009

jeffhartsell said:
Free actions I don't think are immediate interrupt actions, so you have to resolve the triggering action. As such, if a barbarian reduced a foe to 0 with a charge, no other actions (other than via an action point) can be taken, thus no swift charge. Same goes for the warden marking as a free action.

This gets tricky if you had a free action that triggered on a hit or on damage. In that case you could trigger the action during the charge and it will resolve after you resolve the charge.

A foe being reduced to zero is the result of the charge action, and a barbarian can't take any non-action point actions at that point.

I wonder how this works if you use an action point to charge at the begining of your turn? Does an action point charge end your turn?

1) the triggered action MUST take place. It was triggered, and it's nested inside the triggering action. Nothing can take the free action away from the barbarian.

2) It's free (can take place at any time) and it's triggered, which means it WILL go off - it's not like a dud or something. Show me the rule that makes triggered actions a dud. The wording of "no action after a charge" is superseded by the fact that free actions can take place at any time, and that the triggered action is mandated to take place by the rules. It's not the players choice to have the attack. The rules require it.

Flipguarder · Aug 24, 2009

Orcus Porkus said:
1) the triggered action MUST take place. It was triggered, and it's nested inside the triggering action. Nothing can take the free action away from the barbarian.

Except being dazed, stunned or unconscious. Personally I believe "no actions can take place" falls in this category

Orcus Porkus said:
The wording of "no action after a charge" is superseded by the fact that free actions can take place at any time, and that the triggered action is mandated to take place by the rules. It's not the players choice to have the attack. The rules require it.

You act as though the DM is mandated by the rules, which is just never true. Anyway, I am of the opinion that it's the other way around in this situation. The fact that the free action is triggered is superseded by the fact that you can't take actions after a charge.

Orcus Porkus · Aug 24, 2009

Flipguarder said:
Except being dazed, stunned or unconscious. Personally I believe "no actions can take place" falls in this category

show me the rule

Flipguarder · Aug 24, 2009

STUNNED (PHB 277)
✦ You grant combat advantage.
✦ You can’t take actions.
✦ You can’t flank an enemy.

UNCONSCIOUS (PHB 277)
✦ You’re helpless.
✦ You take a –5 penalty to all defenses.
✦ You can’t take actions.
✦ You fall prone, if possible.
✦ You can’t flank an enemy.

CHARGE: STANDARD ACTION (PHB 287-288)
✦ Move and Attack: Move your speed as part of the
charge and make a melee basic attack or a bull rush
at the end of your move.
✦ +1 Bonus to the Attack Roll: You gain a +1 bonus
to the attack roll of your basic attack or bull rush.
✦ Movement Requirements: You must move at least
2 squares from your starting position, and you must
move directly to the nearest square from which you
can attack the enemy. You can’t charge if the nearest
square is occupied. Moving over difficult terrain
costs extra squares of movement as normal.
✦ Provoke Opportunity Attacks: If you leave a
square adjacent to an enemy, that enemy can make
an opportunity attack against you.
✦ No Further Actions: After you resolve a charge
attack, you can’t take any further actions this turn,
unless you spend an action point to take an extra
action.

Turns out I was wrong about dazed... oh well. the point still stands.

I suppose the thing you will argue against is that there is a difference between "you can't take any further actions" and "no actions can take place". That's a fair point. But at the end of the day, if it meant you couldn't take any actions except free actions it would say so, like it does in the dazed description, not just allow for action points and mention nothing else. I think that using "action points" to allow for "free actions" by making them synonymous is far-fetched.