Pathfinder 1E Pathfindering d20 Modern: Forked Thread: d20 modern Failed.

Remathilis · Mar 1, 2009

Forked from: d20 modern Failed...why? (or did it?)

Greg K said:
I like d20 Modern. I actually like it better than 3e and definitely much better than 4e. My only major complaint is the fx systems.

If I were going to revise it, I would make the following changes:

1. an explanation on the d20M class system from the designers like that found in the Modern Player's Companion (The Game Mechanics/Green Ronin)
2. some additional occupations (The Game Mechanics/Green Ronin)
3. a change in the treatment of martial arts (RPGObjects's Blood and Fists)
4. a new fx system for magic (Elements of Magic Mythic Earth from EN Publishing)
5. a new fx system for psionics (Green Ronin's Psychic's Handbook)
6. Make Advanced Classes work with talent trees rather than the current style.
7. Change Action Points to work more like M&M hero points when modifiying d20 rolls.
8. Skills
- Passive Perception and Opposed Checks
- Complex skill checks (UA)
9. Combat
- revised rules for Automatic weapons
- a Star Wars condition trick or a new damage system like that of True20.
- Death and Dying Rules like those in Unearthed Arcana
- add a second wind mechanic for all characters rather than a talent tree
- a Book of Iron Might style maneuver system
10. a quick NPC generator like Adamant's Foe Factory: Modern (which is based on Spycraft)
11. Hot Pursuit style chase rules.
12. Make incantations from Urban Arcana and Unearthed Arcana core.

I also wouldn't mind the following:
- removing iterative attacks or making additional attacks into feats.
- a unified saving throw progression similar to 4e's defenses
- saving throws as defenses

So, why doesn't someone?

d20 Modern is OGL. Most of the best possible "revisions" have been done by OGL-compliant games (Spycraft, M&M, True d20). Even elements of 4e/Saga could be engineered into the system without breaking OGL. Add Unearthed Arcana elements (sanity for example) and bits of its own flavor.

Could a "Pathfinder"-like d20 Modern revision work?

(Psi)SeveredHead · Mar 1, 2009

Know the audience.

I'm less interested in rules changes than in adventures.

If I wanted rules changes, I could use any number of alternate systems, like Spycraft.

Desert Hare · Mar 1, 2009

Odyssey System - "Pathfindering" d20 Modern

Krensky · Mar 3, 2009

Remathilis said:
Forked from: d20 modern Failed...why? (or did it?)
d20 Modern is OGL. Most of the best possible "revisions" have been done by OGL-compliant games (Spycraft, M&M, True d20). Even elements of 4e/Saga could be engineered into the system without breaking OGL. Add Unearthed Arcana elements (sanity for example) and bits of its own flavor.

Point of order:

Spycraft is not descended from d20 Modern. The Spycraft Espionage Handbook (Spycraft 1) was based on the 3.0 SRD and Star Wars d20 (well, the W/V system was, anyway).

That said, if I wanted to used d20 for a modern game, I have Spycraft 2, M&M2, True20, and Modern20 already. I wish Adamant and Skarka the best of luck with their project, but I'm not sure the market needs another d20 varient capable of doing 'modern' gaming. I know I'm not sure I do.

Desert Hare · Mar 3, 2009

Krensky said:
and Star Wars d20 (well, the W/V system was, anyway).

Actually, that came from Unearthed Arcana, which released the W/V system as Open Content. Otherwise, not other system would have been allowed to use the W/V hp variant.

Krensky · Mar 3, 2009

Desert Hare said:
Actually, that came from Unearthed Arcana, which released the W/V system as Open Content. Otherwise, not other system would have been allowed to use the W/V hp variant.

Spycraft 1 was published in 2002, Unearthed Arcana was published in 2004. AEG had special permission to use the system and it was not open content. I don't have my copy handy, but the SC2.0 book lists Star Wars d20, not Unearthed Arcana in it's Section 15.

Dannyalcatraz · Mar 3, 2009

Regardless of actual roots, Spycraft, M&M and others basically filled the remaining need for modern D20 system based gaming left over by D20 Modern. Even using Dragonstar, Star Wars, Prime Directive, TravellerD20 or other sci-fi RPGs stripped of their oddball races and FX could be used.

Besides, I'm not sure "Pathfinderizing" would be the way to go anyway.

(Psi)SeveredHead has it right- they were on a better track with the Polyhedron Minigames and Urban Arcana and DarkMatter- publish some quality concrete settings and other supplements and you'll get players...or at least buyers.

You need look no further than GURPS. That game wouldn't be nearly as successful as it is if its supplements weren't so popular with non-GURPS players.

D20 Modern got off to a decent start, but like the Hare, it let itself get overtaken and paid the price. Had they properly supported the product, it could have been big- the D20 version of GURPS, perhaps- rather than an "also ran."

The Shaman · Mar 8, 2009

Dannyalcatraz said:
Regardless of actual roots, Spycraft, M&M and others basically filled the remaining need for modern D20 system based gaming left over by D20 Modern. Even using Dragonstar, Star Wars, Prime Directive, TravellerD20 or other sci-fi RPGs stripped of their oddball races and FX could be used.

I don't know that I agree with this.

All of those games offer alternatives to d20M, but I don't any of them replaced it. I have M&M and I like it very much, and while I like it's versatility, it doesn't have the archetypes of d20M; I think archetypes are good as a tool for getting players into the game. Spycraft is very different (and not a game I care for at all). All of the sci fi games have inherent settings built into in their rules, such as how starships travel between star systems, so it's more than just stripping out some of the fluff.

Krensky · Mar 8, 2009

The Shaman said:
I don't know that I agree with this.

All of those games offer alternatives to d20M, but I don't any of them replaced it. I have M&M and I like it very much, and while I like it's versatility, it doesn't have the archetypes of d20M; I think archetypes are good as a tool for getting players into the game. Spycraft is very different (and not a game I care for at all). All of the sci fi games have inherent settings built into in their rules, such as how starships travel between star systems, so it's more than just stripping out some of the fluff.

d20Modern doesn't have archetypes. Fast, Strong, Tough etc aren't archetypes, and frankly they're less useful then Hacker or Soldier or Wheelman for getting the players in the right frame of mind. SC2 does pretty much everything d20 Modern can do, and usually does it better then Modern too. As for the sci-fi game, you're right, it's not just stripping fluff. It's stripping fluff and ignoring non-applicable subsystems and crunch. Other then Star Wars I can't think of a sci-fi game whose system is so tied to the world it can't be used for something else.

The Shaman · Mar 8, 2009

Krensky said:
d20Modern doesn't have archetypes. Fast, Strong, Tough etc aren't archetypes, and frankly they're less useful then Hacker or Soldier or Wheelman for getting the players in the right frame of mind. SC2 does pretty much everything d20 Modern can do, and usually does it better then Modern too.

Bollocks.

If I wanted to create a Theban hoplite, a Burgundian knight, a Bowery thug, or an NFL-player-turned-bodyguard, every one of those is covered by the Strong Hero. That's about as defining an archetype as one can hope for from a roleplaying game.

Pathfinder 1E Pathfindering d20 Modern: Forked Thread: d20 modern Failed.

Remathilis

Legend

(Psi)SeveredHead

Adventurer

Desert Hare

Banned

Krensky

First Post

Desert Hare

Banned

Krensky

First Post

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator

The Shaman

First Post

Krensky

First Post

The Shaman

First Post

Similar Threads