L4W Discussion Thread III

Atanatotatos · Mar 8, 2009

Heh. You like making demands, don't you? Well, I generally post multiple times per day as a player, however DMing is obviously a different thing altogether, since frequency depends on the party too, and problems can easily occur.
Anyway, yeah, barring troubles my post rate is rather high.

covaithe · Mar 8, 2009

The second character proposal seems to be popular, so there's not likely to be a shortage of level 1 players in the near future. Which is good, because I think we have a queue of DMs forming again. This is a fantastic problem for a living world to have.

Lord Sessadore · Mar 9, 2009

I agree that extra DMs is a fantastic problem

Hopefully we'll still have a surplus when the PHB2 gets approved (read: when I make my avenger).

In other news, I think the active players in the tavern just did a roll call; looks like there's 5 of them there.

Dunamin · Mar 9, 2009

CaBaNa said:
I'd like to put forward an idea that seems to be creeping up all on it's own...

Hekates V. Lauto

Hekates seems too really want to come back from the dead without asking permission or paying...

Lauto hates that sort of thing...

It is basically writing itself currently, and I don't need it to be official, but thought I'd cast a line.

Plenty of characters working toward Hekates goals, Lauto has developed a heck of a following... Seems it could offer a nice spot of adventure for a good amount of time, maybe even leading to some nice PvP down the line (only for those interested, and with some nice ground rules to make sure things OOC stay civil and such. I'd prefer if folks couldn't necessarily kill each other off, that way we don't lose our promising NPC's that are looking for retirement... although being on the losing side could force retire a character, i.e. injured beyond adventure. That would be worked out later. these are all just ideas I've got bouncing, that I'd like some feedback on.)

What does everyone think about it?

This shouldn’t go by unnoticed. I think the basic premise is very interesting, CaBaNa, and at the very least would make a good core for an adventure or perhaps even a whole campaign / adventure path. If you’re up for it, build on the idea and email the judges whenever you feel you’re ready.

However, the modularity of the world needs to be respected - any drastic change in an established relationship between power groups does not carry over from an adventure. I don’t think we’ve established that much about relations between gods so it’s no biggie playing up discord between Hekates and Lauto, but you can’t declare a war between followers to apply to the games of other DMs.

No PvP unless that’s the explicit purpose of the adventure and all involved parties agree. I would strongly oppose any PvP that leads to death or retirement, in any case.

Don Incognito said:
I added some information to Daunton's page, some of it from my adventure, some of it not. It's all tied up in gangs, though.

clicky clicky
http://www.enworld.org/wiki/index.php/L4W:Daunton

SeaPainter said:
Well... I've made my first addition to the wiki. I added "The Commons" district to Daunton. The concept is loosely based on/inspired by Faneuil Hall Market (aka Quincy Market) in Boston, MA... the idea being a historic district, that serves as a melting pot for poverty & influence.

If it steps on anyones toes let me know... it can either be altered or deleted.

Looks great, guys! Very nice expansion on Daunton.

JoeNotCharles said:
Actually, if anyone knows the answer to the above questions, just edit the Adventure Index I just added to the wiki.

Cool stuff as well! Did some clarifications on the Closed Eye.

CaBaNa · Mar 9, 2009

Dunamin said:
This shouldn’t go by unnoticed. I think the basic premise is very interesting, CaBaNa, and at the very least would make a good core for an adventure or perhaps even a whole campaign / adventure path. If you’re up for it, build on the idea and email the judges whenever you feel you’re ready.

However, the modularity of the world needs to be respected - any drastic change in an established relationship between power groups does not carry over from an adventure. I don’t think we’ve established that much about relations between gods so it’s no biggie playing up discord between Hekates and Lauto, but you can’t declare a war between followers to apply to the games of other DMs.

No PvP unless that’s the explicit purpose of the adventure and all involved parties agree. I would strongly oppose any PvP that leads to death or retirement, in any case.

Looks great, guys! Very nice expansion on Daunton.

Cool stuff as well! Did some clarifications on the Closed Eye.

Those demands are reasonable, as well as supportive to the community. The competition between Lauto and Hekates could be made into a friendly game of chance. Lauto likes gambling...
That way followers could have friendly rivalry, but could also ignore it altogether, depending on personal preferences.

I don't like PvP in general, players love their characters, and don't want to see them fail vs. other Players characters. It may be difficult to stop certain characters from killing other characters. PvP opens up difficult and shaky territory.

That said players sometimes want to retire a character, for whatever reason. We could create a space where the character is retired, they can create a new character, and the last adventure they take the retired character on is PvP. That way no one is invested in having their character "survive" the PvP, because it is already understood that they won't.
A nice RP way of putting a character to rest. I still think this may cause issues...

Thoughts?

Lord Sessadore · Mar 9, 2009

CaBaNa said:
I don't like PvP in general, players love their characters, and don't want to see them fail vs. other Players characters. It may be difficult to stop certain characters from killing other characters. PvP opens up difficult and shaky territory.

That said players sometimes want to retire a character, for whatever reason. We could create a space where the character is retired, they can create a new character, and the last adventure they take the retired character on is PvP. That way no one is invested in having their character "survive" the PvP, because it is already understood that they won't.
A nice RP way of putting a character to rest. I still think this may cause issues...

Thoughts?

The thing with PvP in 4e is that it really (really) isn't built for it. Especially at low level, A PvP match will essentially come down to "whoever wins initiative goes nova with an AP and wins". Ata ran a little PvP tournament for fun here on the boards, and the first couple of fights were over in the first or second round, with little to no chance for retaliation. PvP will also heavily favour certain classes.

I did have an idea a while back to set up a sort of sparring ring for characters waiting in the tavern, but it would have been explicitly non-lethal. I don't like the idea of PCs actually killing other PCs; even if people say that they're OK with it, they might not be if it happens in reality. PvP that doesn't have an explicit penalty should be fine, but I agree with Dunamin - if losing means you're either dead or forced to retire, I'd be very much against it.

Atanatotatos · Mar 9, 2009

Well, about my experiment, it seems to work fine since the players agreed not to use APs to attack. We'll see better when the final ends and we try again with more entries, an a highr level.

renau1g · Mar 9, 2009

Go me!

CaBaNa · Mar 9, 2009

I'm glad you guys have so much experience with this! I like your ideas better than mine, they seem to cater to the idea of PvP without the negative consequences.

[sblock=Edit]After reading a bit of your tournament atanatotatos, I'm interested, if you throw together another of the same or the team game, let me know! It looks like fun, I'd hate to miss out on fun.[/sblock]

Atanatotatos · Mar 10, 2009

I just sent an e-mail with an adventure proposals to the judges. It's the first time I do this so I'm not sure it's done right, so I apologize if the info is not enough or the format's not right. It's a very simple adventure, really, but I hope it will satisfy a little the players currently waiing for a game. I have to say, though, that the encounters are not probably what you'd call easy (I think).

I'll wait for a reply before proposing the adventure in the Tavern, however, for those interested, it's a short adventure (intended to bring 5 characters to level 2) that involves traveling into the depth of the Daunton's woods to recover a lost item...

CaBana: sure, at the moment we're waiting for the final round to end. Keep an eye on the OOC thread, soon it'll be back to recruitment.