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Saturday, 14th March, 2009, 03:53 PM #21
Superhero (Lvl 15)
Likewise your idea doesn't allow for the possibility of two Gods of Fire coexisting simultaneously.
Secondly, even if they embody the exact same concept like two deities created from the gestalt worship and belief of mortals on two different worlds on the material plane, I still see little reason to not allow one of them to exist, or have them be the same thing like you would imply. They might be the same concept, but the same concept as envisioned and viewed through the lens of devotion of two perhaps very different cultures.
Another example: demons being a physical manifestation of malignant chaos hasn't stopped the Abyss from being populated with an uncountable or infinite number of them. There's no limitation imposed at all like what you mentioned. It's a very different style than your own, but I've never come across anything restrictive or limiting (rather quite the opposite).Todd Stewart
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Saturday, 14th March, 2009, 06:07 PM #22
The rules for deities just didn't work in 3E, and I don't think 4E managed a better job in that regard. Of course, your opinion may vary.
Saturday, 14th March, 2009, 07:02 PM #23
Scout (Lvl 6)
In the spirit of form follows function, I feel like these guys should be statted as appropriate to where we might see them used in a game.
WotC's choice of Level 35 Solo for Tiamat and Vecna are aimed at making these gods suitable for the last encounter of a campaign, which seems like a reasonable place.
Some gods should be less powerful than that, simply because we expect to fight them along with suitable minions. It's hard to imagine facing Bane or Ioun in a five-on-one combat. Either Lower the levels on such gods or make them elites to free up room in the XP budget for their allies.
Other Gods don't seem especially suited for that Ultimate encounter. Torog and Bahamut, for example, are guardians of a sort, so I'd expect to fight them earlier in the epic tier, and then spend the rest of the campaign dealing with whatever it was that they were guarding in the first place. So perhaps level 30 solo (with the aim of fighting them at 26th level)
Sunday, 15th March, 2009, 03:29 AM #24
What levels should the D&D Pantheon Gods be?
Ah, that's an easy question
Infinite, of course - all of them!
Sunday, 15th March, 2009, 04:12 AM #25
Orcus on an Off-Day (Lvl 22)
In my campaign all of the gods are about 15th level, but they each have 100,000 times as many hit points as other 15th level monsters do. The PC's always get bored trying to kill them.
Sunday, 15th March, 2009, 12:25 PM #26
Thaumaturgist (Lvl 9)
Hello again Shemeska!
Absolutely.Originally Posted by Shemeska
So neither is (the ultimate expression of) 'Fire' itself. So you are not battling against a 'concept' anymore than you would be facing a fire elemental.It hasn't stopped me before. Imix and Kossuth just to pick a pair, both gain worship as 'gods of fire', and both openly claim to be just that. Assuming for the moment that they both are indeed gods of fire, and physically embody that concept -indeed -are- that concept itself- you might be right, except despite what they might claim, or their worshippers' believe, they're each embodying different aspects of the same concept.
But in universal terms neither would be 'fire' itself, thats the point I am making. You seem against the idea of slaying a god because you can't kill 'fire' (for example). But there may well be a dozen such beings linked to fire that are gods of fire, but not fire itself. So I am just wondering where and when it is you flip the switch to turn off the stats?Secondly, even if they embody the exact same concept like two deities created from the gestalt worship and belief of mortals on two different worlds on the material plane, I still see little reason to not allow one of them to exist, or have them be the same thing like you would imply. They might be the same concept, but the same concept as envisioned and viewed through the lens of devotion of two perhaps very different cultures.
Chaos does have a tendency to diversify.Another example: demons being a physical manifestation of malignant chaos hasn't stopped the Abyss from being populated with an uncountable or infinite number of them.
However I am not sure what you are suggesting here, I doubt its that Demons should have no stats because they are the physical manifestations of malignant chaos.
Did you know that 4E Gods have an accompanying sidebar that basically amounts to a handful of suggested stipulations PCs have to meet to even have a chance of (properly) defeating them?There's no limitation imposed at all like what you mentioned. It's a very different style than your own, but I've never come across anything restrictive or limiting (rather quite the opposite).
Sounds a bit like what you suggested in your first post...albeit with stats after the PCs meet one or more stipulations.
Sunday, 15th March, 2009, 12:39 PM #27
Thaumaturgist (Lvl 9)
Wizards (of the Coast) and I disagree with you.Originally Posted by Jhaelen
Sunday, 15th March, 2009, 02:08 PM #28
Acolyte (Lvl 2)
I merely suggest that you refer to an earlier WotC publication -- The Primal Order
Jack, you have debauched my sloth.
Sunday, 15th March, 2009, 02:25 PM #29
The Grand Druid (Lvl 20)
I guess weaker demigods should typically be something like 30th level elites?
BTW I can imagine in certain campaigns a god might be encountered at the Heroic tier as a 10th level Solo.
If you like my idea, feel free to award xp.
Monday, 16th March, 2009, 12:22 PM #30
Thaumaturgist (Lvl 9)