What levels should the D&D Pantheon Gods be?

Upper_Krust · Mar 24, 2009

Howdy Jhaelen!

Jhaelen said:
Humm? Wait a second. Maybe it's because I'm almost asleep right now, but about half of these aren't actually gods, are they?

Depends on your definition of a 'god'. To me its any being with a body of mortal worshippers. Note that Orcus, Graz'zt, Baphomet and Tiamat all have cults/cultists referenced and detailed.

Quartz · Mar 24, 2009

Upper_Krust said:
I don't think ascended deities are necessarily weaker, as all power is relative.

True, but they allegedly start off as being considerably weaker.

At the moment what I have pencilled in is:

Hero-deity = Level 30

Legendary Tier (Levels 31-40)
Quasi-deity = Level 31-35
Demi-deity = Levels 36-40

Immortal Tier (Levels 41-50)
Lesser Deity = 41-45
Greater Deity = 46-50

If you're separating them out like that, you might as well turn each into a 10-level tier with its own path.

Upper_Krust · Mar 25, 2009

Hey there Quartz!

Quartz said:
True, but they allegedly start off as being considerably weaker.

That might depend on the events that lead to them becoming immortal in the first place. For instance it seems as though the Raven Queen (an ascended mortal) is in a significant position of power after relatively little time.

If you're separating them out like that, you might as well turn each into a 10-level tier with its own path.

Well, that wouldn't gel with the core rules, whereby we see Demon Princes are in the high 20's/low 30's. Lesser Gods are in the mid 30's and Greater Gods presumably in the high 30's.

Additionally, the more tiers you have the more monsters you need to make each tier worthwhile (and 4E requires A LOT of monsters). I think I have enough to make two tiers worthwhile, but probably not more than that.

Shazman · Mar 25, 2009

They're gods. They shouldn't have levels. Their avatars or aspects, maybe. The gods are gods. They aren't meant to be killed and have their stuff taken like some random monster. This concept of having to fight everything you see is overwhelming prevalent in 4E and is just plain silly.

Wolfwood2 · Mar 25, 2009

It's my opinion that there's no point in statting out any god higher than mid-thirties. Past that point, PCs can't possibly defeat them, so why do you need stats?

Sure there's the epic quest to get some thingamajiggie to reduce them in power enough that you can take them on option. (Which some DMs may consider mandatory for any divine level being.) If that's the case though, you still only need the mid-thirties stats with an asterisk saying that this can be considered the god after they have been depowered enough under the appropriate quest/circumstance to fight.

Shazman said:
They're gods. They shouldn't have levels. Their avatars or aspects, maybe. The gods are gods. They aren't meant to be killed and have their stuff taken like some random monster. This concept of having to fight everything you see is overwhelming prevalent in 4E and is just plain silly.

Come, the debate on whether gods should be fightable has raged under every edition of D&D. Don't act like this is some 4E thing. As always, every DM has their own opinion and either option is perfectly reasonable.

Upper_Krust · Mar 25, 2009

Hey there Wolfwood2!

Wolfwood2 said:
It's my opinion that there's no point in statting out any god higher than mid-thirties. Past that point, PCs can't possibly defeat them, so why do you need stats?

Well you are missing the obvious. I'm working on some books that add two new tiers (for immortals) allowing players to get to Level 50.

Sure there's the epic quest to get some thingamajiggie to reduce them in power enough that you can take them on option. (Which some DMs may consider mandatory for any divine level being.) If that's the case though, you still only need the mid-thirties stats with an asterisk saying that this can be considered the god after they have been depowered enough under the appropriate quest/circumstance to fight.

Indeed.

Come, the debate on whether gods should be fightable has raged under every edition of D&D. Don't act like this is some 4E thing. As always, every DM has their own opinion and either option is perfectly reasonable.

I think the key thing now though is that God stats in 4E really work very successfully.

ilikepie · Jun 9, 2009

I'm new to the forums- in fact I just joined when I saw this topic...

The answer to this question is 31.

That's right. Demigod is an epic destiny starting at players level 21, so demi-gods would be like players, limited to level 30. Like the example of Orcus shows, while demons and such can be immensely powerful, they are material creatures and should also be constricted to level 30. Anything that is physical is confined to level 30 because no matter how much experience they gain, they cannot level up further. Gods are beyond physical beings and more powerful. Which is why they are all level 31.

Depending on your campaign setting, of course, gods could either be irrelevant or beings that walk the earth, or somewhere in between. My setting is based heavily on a diverse pantheon of gods and the idea they affect almost everything in the world. Regardless, they aren't physical creatures, so they are level 31. Some gods may be more powerful than others, but they're all gods, and in my games, that means they are all roughly equals. Though it depends on your campaign setting, I personally think that the basic level for the basic gods in the basic setting is 31.

Inyssius · Jun 9, 2009

ilikepie said:
Though it depends on your campaign setting, I personally think that the basic level for the basic gods in the basic setting is 31.

...except for Tiamat, at level 35? And Vecna, at level 35? And Maglubiyet, at level 32?

I'm pretty sure I've misunderstood your meaning.

ilikepie · Jun 12, 2009

I never new Vecna was level 35. I'm just saying what's the point of giving a whole new tier exclusively for gods?

pippenainteasy · Oct 11, 2011

The worshiper requirements here exceed the population of Faerun lol.

I know everyone here talks about "multi-spheric deities" but is that concept even acknowledged by WoTC? I was the impression that the "Corellon/Bane/Moradin" of different settings are just recycled gods (but meant to be distinctly separate entities, i.e. core moradin and FR moradin are different gods altogether) and not actually meant to be the same being that occupies multiple spheres.