Using Books other than Core + Powers and Vault?

Smeelbo · Mar 16, 2009

I like building my own campaigns and fluff, rather than what Hasbro pumps out, so I am wondering about the value of some books I have declined to purchase so far.

Manual of the Planes
This one concerns me the most. On the one hand, Cosmology has never been D&D's strong point, but on the other hand, extra-planar adventure could well be an expected and vital part of paragon and epic tier play. What do I miss if I skip this book, and how useful is it for the heroic tier?

Draconomicon
I was generally unimpressed with the couple dozen pages I read. I'm planning to hit the players with a "pubescent" Black Dragon, and wondered if the book might be helpful. However, it was all pretty obvious stuff I had already thought of, and that the DMG Toolbox plus MM seemed good enough. Anything of value here, besides Crayola dragons?

Open Grave
I have bad memories from 3.X regarding The Book of Vile Deeds, Hordes of the Abyss, etc., what does this book have to offer? Admitedly, the undead in the current MM seem pretty bland. Did they save the good stuff for this book? Like what?

Forgotten Realms
Always hated the setting, always will. I hate the gods, the plot lines, the history, the novels, everything. I dislike Drow, and the RPGA. The best thing I can say about Forgotten Realms is that it isn't Dragonlance. Did they hide any important rules or character options in there?

Dungeon Delve
Under other circumstances, I would be more interested, but since I am taking care of my mother live in now, I have all the free time I can stand and more, and own mapping software. I have been less than impressed with the published adventures I have seen so far. Is it good, or is it just more half-assed trash like the stuff Gregory Marks put out for PHB2 Release Day? Did they really pay that guy? Better question: did they pay his editor?

I'd prefer it if I could get along with a minimal number of books, the PHB/MM/DMGs, Powers and Vault. But if something like Manual of the Planes is necessary for paragon play, that is something I should know.

Thank you,
Smeelbo

Mal Malenkirk · Mar 16, 2009

Manual of the Planes
This one concerns me the most. On the one hand, Cosmology has never been D&D's strong point, but on the other hand, extra-planar adventure could well be an expected and vital part of paragon and epic tier play. What do I miss if I skip this book, and how useful is it for the heroic tier?

I have it but have only browed it. Like it, lots of good stuff. There is fluff about all trhe planes with a focus on describing specific locale, even if many are just a few paragraph long. There is also a few interesting planar themed paragon and magic items.

Draconomicon
I was generally unimpressed with the couple dozen pages I read. I'm planning to hit the players with a "pubescent" Black Dragon, and wondered if the book might be helpful. However, it was all pretty obvious stuff I had already thought of, and that the DMG Toolbox plus MM seemed good enough. Anything of value here, besides Crayola dragons?

Who cares about the ecology of the dragon? I like the dragon stats though and there are two things that make the book for me: 8 dragon lair with generic background that can be easily plugged in any homebrew campaign and detailed description of 8 unique famous dragon (Ashardalon, Cyanban etc.) that can also easily be renamed and plugged as main villain in any campaign.

Open Grave
I have bad memories from 3.X regarding The Book of Vile Deeds, Hordes of the Abyss, etc., what does this book have to offer? Admitedly, the undead in the current MM seem pretty bland. Did they save the good stuff for this book? Like what?

Like the Draco book, the best part are the sample undead lair that can easily be plugged into any campaign.

Forgotten Realms
Always hated the setting, always will. I hate the gods, the plot lines, the history, the novels, everything. I dislike Drow, and the RPGA. The best thing I can say about Forgotten Realms is that it isn't Dragonlance. Did they hide any important rules or character options in there?

Amen. FR blows. The player's guide has the swordmage and dark pact which are very fun but you can get that in the compendium.

fba827 · Mar 16, 2009

Oh the books you mention, I can only comment on one ...

Forgotten Realms
Always hated the setting, always will. I hate the gods, the plot lines, the history, the novels, everything. I dislike Drow, and the RPGA. The best thing I can say about Forgotten Realms is that it isn't Dragonlance. Did they hide any important rules or character options in there?

Do you mean the FR Player's Guide? Or the FR Campaign Setting?

If you mean the Player's Guide, it has the swordmage class, genasi race, another warlord pact (dark pact, very ... dark) (and drow but you already said you don't need that part). There is also spellscar multiclassing powers which could easily be reflavored as something else. The other half of the book is FR regions (common knowledge, what bonus you get for being from that background, and a couple adventure hooks and PC motivations for being in that area). Neither of my groups runs an FR game. But we do use the swordmage class out of it but not much else.

For the FR Campaign guide, the one I saw (briefly) seemed to be entirely setting descriptions and plot hooks. So unless you wanted to mine the plot hooks for ideas, I doubt you'll get much use out of it.

tiornys · Mar 16, 2009

As some general advice, if you're wanting access to all of the good crunch but have minimal use for the fluff, you can get access to all of the crunch (good and otherwise) by subscribing to D&D Insider. The Compendium has basically everything crunch, is easier to use than it used to be, and it looks like WotC plans to continue to improve the interface.

t~

CapnZapp · Mar 16, 2009

Smeelbo said:
I'd prefer it if I could get along with a minimal number of books, the PHB/MM/DMGs, Powers and Vault.

That's not the minimal number of the books.

The Powers series is open to unbalanced power-creep, and the Adventurer's Vault, while nice to have, is certainly not required.

Especially if you make up your own world.

Other than that; could I ask you to cut out the soap-box, please. Nobody needs rants against books thinly disguised as genuine questions.

gtoasnt3 · Mar 16, 2009

I personally don't have the time to write my own campaign like I used to in the 80's and 90's so I appreciate other's campaigns. At this time, we are playing the SOW Dungeon arc, and we are residing in Elsir Vale. I own all of the books with the exception of Dungeon Delve and the FR Campaign Guide (I do have the Player Guide).

Manual of the Planes: I love this one. I read it from cover to cover and enjoy how the cosmos is laid out this time. Plus, it really helps me add flavor to the SOW arc since there is a bit of travel to the other planes. I recommend it.

FR Players Guide: New races and classes, plus a good amount of stuff that my PC's use. I recommend it. Why not the Campaign guide? I don't care to put the guys into that world, and the Campaign guide doesn't seem to have enough game stats to make me buy it. I don't care about the history or politics of a world I don't use (we used Eberron most recently).

Open Grave and Draconomicon: Can't say that I have used anything from these books, but they were entertaining reads. I loved both of them and recommend them if you want challenging encounters with either monster brand.

AbdulAlhazred · Mar 16, 2009

I'd say Manual of the Planes, Open Grave, and Draconomicon are not really all that necessary in terms of play. I just leafed through the latter two and haven't picked up copies. They have LOTS of monster variations, especially Open Grave. So it could be a good book to pick up when you feel a need for some spiced up undead, on the other hand you'd probably only ever use a fraction of what is in there.

Manual of the Planes you can certainly skip. It is a fairly nice book, but nothing in it is vital. There are some new Demons and Devils, etc that might or might not be interesting to run, but if you aren't doing extraplanar adventures it certainly isn't compulsory. Even if you are most of the material isn't critical, you can certainly wing it.

AV seems to me to be almost a core book in the sense that a lot of PCs will want to use the newer weapons and the list of magic items does fill in some big holes in the line up there. The alchemical stuff is kind of nice too. It certainly will fulfill the party's desire to throw bombs and whatnot around! The mount and vehicle stuff is also pretty welcome, filling out some holes in the core rules. Certainly not a mandatory book, but players may miss some of the stuff in there and I find it quite useful.

As for the FR stuff, I don't use it either. Might be nice to have the info on Swordmage, but nobody is going to die without it. I think if you get a PHB2 at some point you'll have plenty of other classes to keep people busy with. Heck, in our campaign we haven't come close to trying everything in PHB1 yet...

Jhaelen · Mar 16, 2009

Smeelbo said:
I like building my own campaigns and fluff, rather than what Hasbro pumps out, so I am wondering about the value of some books I have declined to purchase so far.

The only one from your list I've bought is 'Manual of the Planes'.

It's not bad but I didn't like it as much as I thought I would. It's really just a short starter on the new cosmology, except for the Nine Hells which a described in more detail than I would have cared for (which can probably be attributed to being rehashed info from the 3E book).

Things I liked were the new hazards, prestige classes and rituals. But for me personally it set a bad precedent: I don't like it if player options are sprinkled into setting books. Those should be saved up for the numerous Player Handbooks and XXX Power books, imho.

AbdulAlhazred · Mar 16, 2009

Yeah, but the Paragon Paths and the Rituals in MoP are not generally all that much use unless you're planning to actually run a setting with a significant extraplanar focus. Even if you ARE most of them are fairly specific to locations etc that a home brew campaign setting may not use (of course you can always reskin). It doesn't bother me that the material was in this book, where else would it be? If it was just general stuff that should be in the PHB then it would be annoying.

The real difficulty with any game system that is now up to what 10 books and counting is that it is starting to get quite hard to find stuff. By the time MM2 and AP come out it will be a round dozen volumes. Frankly I think they should consider covering more topics in a volume or something, but hey I just pay for the stuff, I don't write it

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evilbob · Mar 16, 2009

Smeelbo: No. Don't worry about the books. As someone else said, you can get all the crunch from the Character Builder, and it sounds like you don't need the fluff since you have plenty of time to generate worlds on your own. The only exception is Dungeon Delve, which again is - in my own opinion, which I've already posted in General somewhere - not worth it if you have the time to make up your own stuff.