Idea board

Atriden · Mar 20, 2009

Atanatotatos said:
It'd be cool if there was a thread where one could go and learn what happened lately, like reading a newspaper (we could name it the "Closed eye" ) so that different parties might have heard of each other, and characters gain fame or respect even though they're acting in different adventure threads.

I agree, that would be awsome. It will also give a sense of that the players are in a living world, where their actions have consequence to the actual world.
An interesting addition to the newspaper would be npc reactions to the players actions, a newspaper section about the political affairs in Daunton and the city development; new building and places, perhaps a most wanted list of pc's; if they have been caught doing something illegal, commited murder, are known pirates and etc. I dont know if that would take too much energy and time to do so, but it would be a nice addition to the paper.

Atriden · Mar 20, 2009

And to an entirely other idea, which I believe have been brought up before. I have been thinking a lot about what are people supposed to do when they are at the Tavern and waiting for the next adventure. Covaithe showed us that it was pretty manageable to have a short adventure with many players, like his long arm of Lauto adventure, but what about an alternative to short adventures. Why not have arenas, like the romans did!
People could sign up for a fight and gain some quick experience and wealth according to their levels, by fighting exotic monsters or fighting other pc’s.
That would introduce pc vs. pc but there should be certain rules implied, so that the pc’s don’t kill each other. We could say that players aren’t allowed to kill each other, since it comes in conflict with the law in Daunton.
One person, a DM, could be responsible for creating the fights and judges could be assigned to make sure that the game rules are followed. It wouldn’t take long to create an encounter and most of the fights would be brief, but there could be an opportunity for longer and more interesting fights, depending on how much effort the dm wants to put in it.

The concept:
A wealthy old man from the Imperium is stranded in Daunton and decides to create some piece of home by building a magnificent arena in Daunton. Heroes and the like can compete for ultimate glory and reputation. He provides entertainment for the world for a price and rewards those who are bold enough to accept his challenges. To make things interesting, he sometimes recreates events from Daunton, Imperial known historical battles and fights. The heroes are usually the defenders fighting off some kind of attacker.
He also makes small tournaments, where heroes can fight each other. The winner has the possibility to earn gold or magical items.

Obvious Flaws:
I know that there doesn’t seem to be many problems with finding or joining a game but wouldn’t it be awesome with an Arena.
People could be fighting in the Arena while DM's are recruiting in the tavern
Misuse: The players would rather go to the arena to get experience instead of adventuring. We could create a limit of how many times you can sign up for a fight, so that players won’t discard a new adventure.

So, what do you think?

covaithe · Mar 20, 2009

Eh. Atanatotatos's PvP experiments have shown pretty conclusively that 1 on 1 PvP doesn't work well in 4e at low levels, at least not without some heavy restrictions. Also, some classes have significant advantages over others in a PvP setting, so I think that wouldn't be balanced.

I don't hate the idea of an arena, I just don't really think PvP has a place in L4W, at least not for XP/loot. An arena where PCs can challenge various monsters might be fun. It might work kind of like this: There would be a notice board thread, where the owner of the arena (an NPC run by the DM) would occasionally post encounters, like so:

The following dangerous beasts will compete in the arena against any who dare to face them!

a young black dragon, captured off the coast of Kythira

two goblin warriors, convicted of piracy

a beholder eye of flame

Quagmire, feeling cocky, could challenge the goblin warriors by himself. Or he could round up some friends and challenge the dragon. Or he could get depressed and tired of life, and challenge the beholder. Whichever one he decided, he'd join a queue to fight. When his turn came up, he'd make whatever preparations he deemed necessary, do the encounter, and either win or lose. Losing probably wouldn't mean dying, unless the death happened in the middle of the encounter, or a really nasty crit or something. If Quagmire (and his team) wins, he gets some loot and xp, and that monster goes off the list. If he loses, it stays and he gets nothing. Maybe a bit of time XP.

The trick would be to limit the encounters to ones that are challenging enough to pose a real risk of failure, I think. It wouldn't do to create a situation where people prefer the arena to real adventures. Though the queue might accomplish that. I certainly wouldn't give time xp for sitting in the queue.

Dunamin · Mar 20, 2009

The basic concept of an arena can be very good.

I would wholly support such an arrangement when PCs fight monsters/NPCs - this is no different than a short adventure.

I'm also fine with PCs fighting PCs when there's no significant gain or loss - which means no death or retirement and no XP award.

I do, however, think it would be a bad idea to have PC vs PC fights result in death, retirement, and/or XP rewards. XP is a pretty fundamental motivation for why players play. I fear that if you use the basic reward system for slaying the creative brainchildren of your fellow players, you create the foundation for PCs being created towards this purpose, solely or in part. It could also among players potentially stir up some negative feelings that don’t exactly contribute to forging good community spirit – I don’t think there’s need for elaboration on what I mean here.

4E D&D is designed for and intended to be group-based combat and problem-resolution that rewards cooperativity and team spirit, unless I’m mistaken. I’d like it to stay that way.

covaithe · Mar 20, 2009

Jinx!

Atanatotatos · Mar 20, 2009

covaithe said:
I don't hate the idea of an arena, I just don't really think PvP has a place in L4W, at least not for XP/loot. An arena where PCs can challenge various monsters might be fun. It might work kind of like this: There would be a notice board thread, where the owner of the arena (an NPC run by the DM) would occasionally post encounters, like so:

Quagmire, feeling cocky, could challenge the goblin warriors by himself. Or he could round up some friends and challenge the dragon. Or he could get depressed and tired of life, and challenge the beholder. Whichever one he decided, he'd join a queue to fight. When his turn came up, he'd make whatever preparations he deemed necessary, do the encounter, and either win or lose. Losing probably wouldn't mean dying, unless the death happened in the middle of the encounter, or a really nasty crit or something. If Quagmire (and his team) wins, he gets some loot and xp, and that monster goes off the list. If he loses, it stays and he gets nothing. Maybe a bit of time XP.

The trick would be to limit the encounters to ones that are challenging enough to pose a real risk of failure, I think. It wouldn't do to create a situation where people prefer the arena to real adventures. Though the queue might accomplish that. I certainly wouldn't give time xp for sitting in the queue.

Go Go MMC Gladiators!!!
Seriously. That would be fun once in a while :heh:

covaithe · Mar 20, 2009

It does sound fun, doesn't it. Maybe when Monster Mash is done.... Of course, I've got two or three other ideas for things to take up my time then, too.

CaBaNa · Mar 20, 2009

hehe, now I don't feel so silly for bringing it up, it seems everyone eventually comes to the conclusion of Arena PvP, and then the people who are experienced and have run experiments step in and say, "we thought of it too, it didn't work out..."

I wouldn't mind the PvP for no award thing, would allow for "duels". still runs a MAJOR risk of creating player enmity. in L4W it may just be best to stick to the vs. monsters.

Edit: Team Battles are where it's at in an arena, will even cut down on the PvP enmity...)