Modern & Futuristic Weapons - Page 3




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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by turk128 View Post
    Instead of reloading for everything... put something like this in:
    Alt Fire Switch: Minor Action
    You swap this weapon into Alt Fire mode. If the Weapon is already in Alt Fire mode, the weapon switches into Nomal Fire mode. Alt Fire mode can only be used for basic attacks. You cannot use a weapon in Alt Fire mode with any Class' At-Will, Encounter, Utility or Daily powers.

    (This way it forces the player to use the weapon's powers or their own... unless they somehow have cool powers that allow them to use weapon's Alt Fire.)
    Second time revising and writing this post! Decided to make it a separate post because it hits on a point that's central to the design philosophy of the system.

    If I understand your suggestion... instead of requiring a minor action be spent after each use, you are suggesting that alt fire be like a toggle- when it's off, the alt fire modes can't be used. When alt fire is 'active,' then the alt fire modes are available with the caveat that class powers can't be used. For simplicity sake, I'm going to assume you mean class weapon attack powers (it doesn't make sense that a cleric couldn't use healing powers, or implement attack powers while in alt fire mode).

    If that's essentially the gist of what you mean, then first let me point out that you can't use class powers in conjunction with alt fire powers as is. Most powers are Standard Action (except Long Burst) and thus are powers in and of themselves. This makes it impossible to use their properties as part of any other attack. So excluding normal attack powers while in 'alt fire mode' isn't saying anything new. It certainly isn't a new penalty.

    For reference, let’s pare down the systems to these short rules:
    -----------------
    Reload
    Minor action with each use- further penalized by inability to attack if not Reloaded.

    Alt Fire Toggle
    Minor action to toggle over. No further penalties.
    Minor action to toggle back. No further penalties.
    -------------------

    The thing I'd fear most under your system is combat becoming too unbalanced and compartmentalized. The alt fire modes are pretty powerful- essentially giving any character the ability to use area/close AOE attacks AT WILL, much like a controller can. Not only does it infringe on the controller's role, but more importantly it allows a party to do a lot more damage to large groups of monsters. Most at will powers only do [1w] to one monster. So imagine an entire party spamming alt fire into a cluster of monsters. BIG DAMAGE.

    This seems like it would make certain encounters WAY too easy, for example, combat involving:

    • Swarms
    • Lots of minions
    • Soldiers, Brutes and other melee units all clustered around a Leader's aura
    • Tight spaces, or limited mobility dungeons

    In these circumstances, I could see a party just spending the one minor action and then just spamming alt fire. I imagine this would make these sorts of encounters REALLY easy and wouldn’t cost the players much in the way of spent powers or resources.

    The rest of the time, I would think characters would tend to;

    1) Avoid using alt fire because it’s too cumbersome to spend two minor actions to switch over and back to exploit two monsters being near each other

    2.)Just use the alt powers all the time. After all, it costs nothing to use and they’d be ready to attack en masse without having to toggle over. Combat tactics might devolve into ‘spray and pray.’


    Any of these scenarios would be bad in my book. So to balance the power and effectiveness of the alt fire powers, it seemed fair to require an extra action.
    This gives the player’s decision weight because that same action could have gone to Divine Challenge, Healing Word, Hunter's Quarry, or Warlock's Mark. It might have gone to a dwarf's second wind, or the use of a healing potion. Maybe it prevented the rogue from using 'Hide in Plain Sight.' Maybe the player decides to go ahead and use the minor action to do something OTHER than Reload and loses the ability to make opportunity attacks or attack powers that can be used as immediate reactions. And so on.

    This mechanic forces tactical choices, preventing monotony AND it limits the use of these powers, preventing over use. And at the end of the day, the price of a minor action is pretty reasonable, making the alt fire mode accessible.
    If you’re still not certain whether the players will recognize the tactical aspect of this mechanic, just wait until the first time the Fighter doesn’t Reload the same round s/he uses Spray. Losing the ability to make opportunity attacks (and thus, mark or tank effectively) will make for a very quick lesson learned.

    I may just be quibbling over nothing. After all, the system has still not been play tested. But I’ve been burned by being too lenient in the past. And it is always much easier to start conservatively and then ease up on the rules than it is to start lenient and get stricter to reign in your game.
    Try both and let me know what seems to work!
    Last edited by Sigurd13; Friday, 29th May, 2009 at 06:37 PM.

 

  • #22
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    Ý Ignore Sigurd13
    Vibro-Blades Added in Melee Weapon Section.

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    Ý Ignore Acid_crash
    Do you have, by chance, a pdf of these rules for download? They look awesome and it would be a great way to playtest them by using them against the players by having a strange metallic shaped thing crash land near them and humanoids wearing bionic suits of strange armor come walking out firing these strange weapons at them.

    It'd be a lot easier to use a pdf file to print than to copy and paste from here.

  • #24
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    Ý Ignore Sigurd13
    Quote Originally Posted by Acid_crash View Post
    It'd be a lot easier to use a pdf file to print than to copy and paste from here.
    Thank you for the interest! I'm slowly working on getting everything cobbled together into a coherent whole. I can definitely work on getting what I have into PDF format.

    Look for updates later! ^_^

  • #25
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    Ammo concept

    Time flies when you have class! Finally all that's over with and I've had a chance to get my notes together and start working on the ammunition and accessories section.

    The Term "Ammunition:"
    I use 'Ammunition' loosely here to simply describe items that are added to a weapon to produce a new damage effect. These are divided into types based on the delivery method of the specific weapon system (cartridges, shells, E-Cells and Fission Cores).
    So while weapons with traditional projectiles can be 'modified' simply by using ammo with special properties, other weapons must be modified with special parts. However I assume that these are easily attached and detached and so takes the same amount of time to deal with as other ammo.


    Special Effect of Elemental Ammo:
    I've begun with special ammunition. The primary purpose is to allow these weapons to take advantage of vulnerabilities. Thus, I didn't add any damage or special conditions to the effects of the special ammo since it will already be doing some sort of extra damage against vulnerable foes.
    Also it seemed outrageously broken to allow the ammo to add status effects when most weapons can be fired indefinitely, not to mention most alternate firing modes hit multiple targets.

    Switching Ammo types:
    Two new combat mechanics cover this concept, written at the beginning of the thread and reproduced here;

    1.) Switch Ammo, Minor Action
    You load alternate ammo or equip an ammo attachment.
    Effect: The modified weapon now benefits from the special ammo's properties.

    2.) Reload Special Ammo, Free Action when Reloading
    You Reload with alternate ammo or equip an ammo attachment.
    Effect: The modified weapon now benefits from the special ammo's properties.

    Additionally, during a short or extended rest the character may choose what type of ammo to begin combat with.


    Missing Prices:
    If you notice, I didn't list prices as I'm not yet sure how to handle it. Most consumables start at about 50gp (though these are potions)... but then how much ammo do you get? If I start setting a cost for ammo per bullet, then we're back to counting munitions again. Gar! I'll work on that.

    Not all weapons can fire all damage types:
    The concept that only certain weapon types should only be able to fire certain damage types got stuck in my brain thematically as I was writing this section. I've been tenaciously trying to maintain a sense of 'realism' while conceptualizing these weapons and certain damage types just 'didn't make sense.' After all, how does a beam weapon shoot ice? Or a a regular, cartridged pistol shoot force?


    Obviously my grasp on the actual science is fuzzy at best, but I went with my instincts. I don't really foresee a balance issue with allowing all weapon types to fire all damage types, so if the 'feel' or setting of your game don't require my sense of 'realism'- then feel free to use this section as a template and allow force bullets or necrotic lasers or whatever. ^_^


    Enjoy! Next up is new explosives ammo and new fuels!
    Last edited by Sigurd13; Monday, 13th July, 2009 at 12:23 PM.

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    Ý Ignore Sigurd13
    Ammunition and Accessories


    I. Traditional Munitions

    --Cartridges and Shells--
    Incendiary Rounds- These munitions ignite on contact, burning the target.

    E-Mag Rounds - On contact, these munitions generate an electro-magnetic pulse that shocks the target.

    Caustic Rounds - This ammunition is filled with an extremely corrosive acid.

    Cryogenic Rounds - An extremely cold substance fills these insulated munitions, freezing the target on contact.

    Code:
    Ammo               Ammo Type               Properties
    Incindiary     Cartridge & Shells        All damage is fire
    E-Mag          Cartridge & Shells        All damage is lightning
    Caustic        Cartridge & Shells        All damage is acid
    Cryogenic      Cartridge & Shells        All damage is cold

    II. Ammunition Attachments

    Infrared Modulator - Module that shifts the laser's spectrum such that the laser burns the target more intensely.

    Lightning Array - Array modification that allows the laser to fire a stream of electrons, shocking the target.

    Neutron Charger - Attachment that augments the size of the ionized particles, producing a more massive, more forceful strike.

    Electron Phaser - Add-on alters ionic composition, allowing weapon to fire electrically charged particles.

    Code:
    Attachment             Ammo Type          Properties
    Infrared Modulator      E-Cells            All damage is fire
    Lightning Array         E-Cells            All damage is lightning
    Neutron Charger       Fission Core         All damage is force
    Electron Phaser       Fission Core         All damage is lightning
    Last edited by Sigurd13; Monday, 13th July, 2009 at 12:44 PM.

  • #27

    Thanks

    Great Material, thanks... this along with the blackpowder weapons I found elsewhere will give me the core of a time hopping campaign I am planning.

    Thanks!
    jd

  • #28
    Quote Originally Posted by jdhVictor View Post
    Great Material, thanks... this along with the blackpowder weapons I found elsewhere will give me the core of a time hopping campaign I am planning.

    Thanks!
    jd
    This also ties in nicely with my tournament campaign I'm gonna start again soon. Thank you for such great detail in explanations and the work put forward, it's awesome.
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  • #29
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    Thanks for posting this! It will be very helpful for converting the City of the Gods to 4E.

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  • #30
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    Ý Ignore Chainsaw
    Sigurd13 - I don't suppose you have this data in a word file?

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