Retailer's Stance on PDF Deals

darjr · Apr 10, 2009

jdrakeh said:
Honestly? If anybody other than Marcus King had written this, I'd be concerned. This is the same guy who has used his RPGNet column to complain about how his staffers, landlords, potential landlords, RPG publishers, etc are all to blame for his retail woes. In that light, this latest plea just comes across as another "Sales are down! Must find somebody else to blame!" screed.

There is, at least, a second retailer response.

ICv2 - Jane Witt of The Keep on RPG PDFs

I don't know. I'd like to think that PDF purchasers that would not buy the book at a retail location, wouldn't buy it anyways. And those that would, do, regardless of PDF. I also like to support my FLGS as much as is reasonable.

Glyfair · Apr 10, 2009

frankthedm said:
Problem is many Brick and mortar stores are still supporting middlemen such as Diamond Distributors and Alliance Games who are the actual folks who make a profit off gaming stores. At one time those were needed, but in this digital age I really wonder how needed they are.

Distributors are needed if the hobby industry isn't going to a model where all but the major titles are electronically delivered. There are too many game companies selling products for a game store to have to individually deal with each one when they want products (especially if the game company has a minimum order).

Beginning of the End said:
If you believe that there is no market for printed books because electronic versions of the books exist, then you probably shouldn't be trying to run a brick-and-mortar bookstore.

He didn't say "no market." He implied there would be less of a market. In an industry where profit margins are slim, the loss of a few sales moves a product from make to break.

Mark · Apr 10, 2009

Marcus King of Titan Games & Music on RPG PDFs said:
Maybe it's just me. I'm a retailer, I just opened our second location (. . .), but when I see the companies, whose products I support and proudly tout to my customers, giving special pricing/treatment to a different tier or supply channel than the ones my company is in I find it incredibly insulting.

PDF and print versions of books are two different products that are not in the same tier and/or supply chain. As I mentioned in another thread regarding the WotC spokesperson who claimed that without PDFs being sold customers should be fine since the print versions were still available, people want print and/or PDFs for different reasons (and sometimes want both) so the two are not interchangeable. It's like claiming that someone should be satisfied with a scale model of a classic car when they wanted a photo of one. Or in the case of Marcus King (who in this analogy would own a model shop), it's like claiming that because a company is putting it's photos of classic cars on sale, then they should also be putting the scale models on sale. If Marcus King wants to take advantage of the discounting being done on PDFs, who should secure the rights to sell the PDFs.

jeffh · Apr 10, 2009

Bigassgeek said:
Calling him paranoid is erroneous and mean-spirited.

Funny, "erroneous and mean-spirited" is a pretty good description of King's column.

JoeGKushner · Apr 10, 2009

I feel bad for retailers.

They are a transition piece.

High end printers get cheaper and cheaper all the time. PDF isn't the huge cost it once was.

Publishers can easily control the 'spigot' of how much they charge when they want to do sales, 'blowout' clearance, etc... with a few flicks of the key board.

Retailers couldn't compete with Amazon for the most part. This extra level of competition is another blow for them.

In terms of service, they don't have a lot of options. Paint your army for you? Rent you space to play? Not like they can host and sell the PDF's themselves right? It'd just create another layer of distrubtion which is one of the benefits of PDF.

I'm not saying he's right or anything but I can see why he'd be angry. Still, if he stocks fiction books of any kind, he better avoid looking at some of the freebies for the Kindle and free PDF books offered online. The market is changing rapidly and it's final form is not yet known.

Mark · Apr 10, 2009

JoeGKushner said:
Not like they can host and sell the PDF's themselves right?

Of course they could. If Games Plus decided to add a PDF section to their website and advertise it in-store, I would be interested in having them sell my wares. I have them at eight online stores mow and am more than happy to add as many more as would like to sell them and drive traffic to them.

Retailers that have websites, please sell PDFs, too.

El Mahdi · Apr 10, 2009

Glyfair said:
... However, the argument that they are the same fundamental product is even stronger (do you consider a paperback and hardback version of the same book "different products). ...

Comparing pdf's to books is comparing apples and oranges.

Comparing paperbacks and hardbacks is comparing Golden Delicious apples to Granny Smith apples.

There's a difference.

:angel:

JoeGKushner · Apr 10, 2009

Mark said:
Of course they could. If Games Plus decided to add a PDF section to their website and advertise it in-store, I would be interested in having them sell my wares. I have them at eight online stores now and am more than happy to add as many more as would like to sell them and drive traffic to them.

Retailers that have websites, please sell PDFs, too.

So 5K retailers come up to you and tell you that all want to sell and you'd be able to hook that up quickly? I'm not asking out of snark here because the folks at Black Sun Games have expressed some interested in it but have no clue how to do it.

How would it not wind up competing with other PDF companies? And it's own stock?

At what point does it go from being a brick and mortar store into a... well, a mail order store but the mail order is actually the evil online presence?

jdrakeh · Apr 10, 2009

darjr said:
There is, at least, a second retailer response.

ICv2 - Jane Witt of The Keep on RPG PDFs

That's no less acrimonious and dramatic. I'm sorry but PDF games have been widely available for well over three years now. Retailers who are just now claiming damages aren't at all credible.

The economy is hurting all over, sales are down everywhere, and I think that retailers who haven't made a peep about PDFs before now but are very suddenly up in arms are just looking for somebody to blame.

Hussar · Apr 10, 2009

Let's not lose sight of the message here though. He's not complaining that pdf's are cheaper, he's complaining that his suppliers are using the current events to offer deep discounts to consumers without giving him any chance of competing.

If the supplier offers you a product at price X and then sells pretty much same product at 1/2 X, then you might be a bit peeved as well.

Retailer's Stance on PDF Deals

darjr

I crit!

Glyfair

Explorer

Mark

CreativeMountainGames.com

jeffh

Adventurer

JoeGKushner

First Post

Mark

CreativeMountainGames.com

El Mahdi

Muad'Dib of the Anauroch

JoeGKushner

First Post

jdrakeh

Front Range Warlock

Hussar

Legend

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