Healing Belt in MIC = broken?

Jefe Bergenstein · Apr 14, 2009

blacktie347 said:
Having a Belt of Healing is unbalanced compared with these prices. It's nice that your group likes using the Belt of Healing and that you don't think that it's overpowered...enjoy that addition to the game. However, I don't think that it quite balances the same way with comparable healing items in the DMG, which is my point, and has been for some time.

One might easily argue the converse... Its nice that your group likes using potions of cure serious wounds, and you dont think its underpowered.

The magic item guidelines in the DMG are estimates. I could easily argue that Gauntlets of Dexterity +4 (cost to create 8000) are broken because by the item pricing guidelines, gauntlets of continuous Cat's Grace (+4 Dex) cost 9000 gp. And what kind of chump makes bracers of armor +4 when they could make bracers of continuous mage armor for 1500? Slotless item of protection from evil for 4000?

Using the guidelines to prove the belt is broken in comparison to a potion of CSW seems odd given the items of unlimited cure light wounds and continuous vigor you can make...

AllisterH · Apr 14, 2009

Kask said:
Balanced? I never mentioned that. I said, basic game rules...

And if those basic game rules have been found to be wanting?

The designers of MIC actually gave a rationale for their pricing and their rules on the MIC (something I think more books from WOTC should've had) and as others have stated, one of those rules is that many of the items in the DMG were simply not price correctly.

As for the cure serious wound wand, who actually uses that? It has ALWAYS been CLW or Wands of lesser vigor.

Kask · Apr 14, 2009

AllisterH said:
And if those basic game rules have been found to be wanting?

Like?

I have found that some of the rules can make for a Monty Haul type of environment...

akbearfoot · Apr 14, 2009

Healing belt

The point of the Healing Belt, as well as tons of the other cheap items in the MIC was to add depth, variety and choice to the game...Normally pretty much every D&D game ends up the same way...players all get the big 6 and they suck if they dont...It's better to sell everything they find for half price if it gets them that extra +1 on their ring of protection or their cloak of resistance etc... because everything else sux for the price.

The designers and most players agree that the 15-minute adventuring day is very tired. Party wakes up, explores till they have a fight, then they RUSH to the next encounter as fast as they can because their precious buffs are gonna wear our in 5 minutes. As soon as the buffs are gone, they stop and rest till they get their spells back.

The healing belt is a interesting fix for this problem...For an affordable price, and a magic item slot, a low PC can actually have more than 1 fight in a day before needing to rest, or using all of the daily spell resources of another PC to get healed....Oh wait! This fix already exists. Wands of lesser vigor...

If you've experimented with 4th edition, or allowed the Tome of Battle classes or Warlocks or any of the reserve feats in your games then you will have already experienced how much more fun games can be when characters get to participate for bigger portions of gaming sessions. I personally don't have a lot of fun when we do the 1 fight followed by 8 hours of rest thing over and over again.

If you think healing belts are broken, then simply require a 1 hour attunement period before they function. Problem solved.

Kask · Apr 15, 2009

akbearfoot said:
The designers and most players agree that the 15-minute adventuring day is very tired. Party wakes up, explores till they have a fight, then they RUSH to the next encounter as fast as they can because their precious buffs are gonna wear our in 5 minutes. As soon as the buffs are gone, they stop and rest till they get their spells back.

Interesting. In 30 years of playing I've never seen this as a Modus operandi for groups I've DMed for or played with.

Is it some new trend with RPGers?

Flatus Maximus · Apr 15, 2009

Kask said:
Interesting. In 30 years of playing I've never seen this as a Modus operandi for groups I've DMed for or played with.

Is it some new trend with RPGers?

It's not so much modus operandi as it is intelligent play, both from the player's and the character's perspective. Given the choice, why go into a fight at anything less than 100%, when the consequences are that you (your character) may die? Why not give yourself the best chance of survival? Of course, sometimes circumstances are beyond your control, but given the choice....

billd91 · Apr 15, 2009

Kask said:
Interesting. In 30 years of playing I've never seen this as a Modus operandi for groups I've DMed for or played with.

Is it some new trend with RPGers?

I haven't seen the behavior either, but you'd have to have hidden under some remote rock for the last few years or be extremely new to the internet to not have heard of it.

So, rather than assume that you're not just being pointlessly sarcastic or that you've been a hermit these last few years, I'd like to welcome you to the internet. Enjoy your stay.

~ On the subject of pointless sarcasm - don't do it, and cut out the snark. Thanks - PS ~

Runestar · Apr 15, 2009

Kask said:
Like?

I have found that some of the rules can make for a Monty Haul type of environment...

You are really going to have to explain your definition of monty haul to us. I think my take on what passes for it is a lot looser than yours...

I don't see a party as having access to a wider variety of magic gear at lower levels as monty haul. My definition of monty haul is when the party has access to much more gear than their wealth guidelines would otherwise indicate. Since I do believe that MIC magic eq is fairly priced for its effect (for most part), there is nothing wrong with lower level parties spending their hard earned cash on cheap magic eq to round out their abilities. At the end of the day, they still aren't exceeding their wealth limits because of it.

Fighters for instance are not just limited to move+attack, 5-ft move+full attack or a bunch of special combat maneuvers with a fairly low rate of success. Now they can do things normally not allowed by their classes thanks to these MIC items such as eschewing difficult terrain, countering status effects, charging as a standard action, making touch attacks, moving+full attack etc (compared to the DMG, where the big six simply improved their base stats, so they still played the same for most part).

Like Tome of battle, MIC just makes combat more fun again by adding options to your PCs, over and above what they already have.

aboyd · Apr 15, 2009

Runestar said:
You are really going to have to explain your definition of monty haul to us.

I suspect his definition of monty haul is pretty similar to the one that blacktie347 already put forward. And I'd say how Kask has used it thus far is how I perceive it too, so he's making sense.

Jhaelen · Apr 15, 2009

akbearfoot said:
If you think healing belts are broken, then simply require a 1 hour attunement period before they function. Problem solved.

Umm. Is THAT the reason people are screaming "OMG, it's teh broken!"?

In my game all items require a 24 hour period of attunement, maybe that's why I never worried about any MIC items.