What is it about rogues?

Asmor · Apr 13, 2009

What is it about being a rogue which requires a player must have some sort of annoying behavior such as...

*Hording all the loot they find, including the loot they "find" on their friends after one dies in battle.
*Always pointing out that in the course of normal travel with no expectation of combat that, while the party is walking along the path, the rogue is 30-50 feet ahead of and to the side of them traveling through the woods.
*Frequently seeking opportunities to steal simply for the sake of stealing.

I think the rogue class just attracts a certain... let's say, unsavory element. The same sort of person who always plays spies and snipers in Team Fortress 2, or snipers in any other game which allows it...

Now, not all rogues have to be like this. I mean, in my experience, they have been, but it's conceivable that someone else might accidentally wander into the rogue territory and not play the class like a jerk. But I think every group has that one guy who always plays rogues or their equivalents, no matter the game or system.

Ok, I'm done blowing off my steam. Please berate me and tell me that I'm wrong.

Starbuck_II · Apr 13, 2009

Asmor said:
What is it about being a rogue which requires a player must have some sort of annoying behavior such as...

Blame Mr. Gygax, he said rogues need to do that or they are performing their class poorly in DMG (back in 2nd edition).

Hjorimir · Apr 13, 2009

I play a halfling rogue in one of our games. His gig is that he loves the circus (and I multiclassed him into Bard after PHB2 came out). He steals too....pastries...pies mostly (you've head of the Great Pie Heist in Harpsberg back in 32? That was me!).

I scout out from the group, but not as a rule (only after the DM gives me a hint that there may be something worth checking out).

No pastry the party carries is safe from me...I have two stomaches to fill.

(Not all rogues are jerks.

)

Ktulu · Apr 13, 2009

Agreed. I think this thread would work better as Tropes for the Classes. A few I can think of:

Fighter

Scruffy Anti-hero who defies every source of Law

Ranger

Pen-ultimate woodsman, refuses to even go into towns.
Tracks through the forest as super-scout regardless of known dangers

Paladin

When in a bar, denies "alcohol" and favors water
Piously seeks the "right thing" even if three sessions back the thing they did was obviously wrong.

Warlock

Has to do something undeniably wicked/evil/disgusting at almost every option, just to remind people he's a warlock (read; Richard from Looking for group)

Those are just some that I've seen repeated in various games.

JustKim · Apr 13, 2009

I think you're talking about three distinct behaviors here.

Skimming: This is the same selfishness seen in clerics/druids who refuse to heal, fighters who rush onward when the rest of the party is drained, and wizards who blow all their spells on trivial enemies then demand to rest. It's not unique to rogues and isn't really related to the other behaviors. This is just someone who is not a team player.

Removing oneself from the party: Disinterest in the other PCs is really more of an interpersonal thing. Sometimes it's a shy player but often it's a player who wants the DM to start pandering to them exclusively, in this case by giving them all the encounters in advance. Once again, any character type can do this, and the issue is probably that the player wants more attention.

Stealing all willy-nilly: This IMO is just a problem player. Someone who wants to know how much they can get away with. Players who pick fights with other PCs or important NPCs, who want to play evil characters, who see a crowd and immediately start picking pockets, who constantly inconvenience the party and claim to be acting in character. Not specific to rogues, as archetypes like the barfightaholic, charm-happy wizard and flauntingly evil cleric are just as bad. Such a person would get the boot from my table.

Henry · Apr 13, 2009

Does anyone old enough remember the Jeff Dee picture from Keep on the Borderlands, with the party fighter turning the party thief upside-down and shaking him to remove all the treasure he stole from the group while adventuring? It's an old trope in D&D.

weem · Apr 13, 2009

Definitely know what you are talking about and have seen that before.

It was mentioned above that this is not a problem specific to rogues, but in my experience (my games/players over the years) it was indeed specific to that class.

I'm playing a Goblin rogue right now - I wrote up a background for him that is a few pages long. He's very charismatic (artful dodger), but I play that (high charisma) as him getting attention for being a gobin of which are never seen wandering town, etc.

I envision him somewhat like Hellboy (my understanding of him from the movies) - he is comfortable with himself, but understands that he sticks out like a sore thumb. He (my character) tries to ignore it, but keeps to himself - smoking from a pipe from time to time and muttering things under his breath like "yea yea, go ahead, stare at the little green guy" etc. He is not the first to dive to the ground for loot after a fight, nor does he steal every chance he gets - he would feel that simply plays into the goblin stereotype which he is trying to avoid - he would say, "I'm not like those animals". With that said, he loves a good fight and can be a bit reckless - something he might attribute to his racial origins, though he would not admit it... nor should anyone say it. I explain his reasoning for traveling with the party as a matter of convenience as when he travels alone, people harass him more often.

Aaaaanyway, I love rogues - there are so many different ways to play them they have always been a favorite of mine from a roleplaying standpoint.

weem · Apr 13, 2009

Henry said:
Does anyone old enough remember the Jeff Dee picture from Keep on the Borderlands, with the party fighter turning the party thief upside-down and shaking him to remove all the treasure he stole from the group while adventuring? It's an old trope in D&D.

Here...

gizmo33 · Apr 13, 2009

Ok, I'll try to defend the rogues of the world. I'm sure they'll back me up. Guys? guys?...

Asmor said:
*Hording all the loot they find, including the loot they "find" on their friends after one dies in battle.

As opposed to doing what with the loot? Core DnD rules and most people's DnD games don't really provide a religious/magical basis for believing that the loot is of any use to a dead character. Number of times in your game that the rogue has been haunted by a ghost looking for his lost magic items? My guess is 0.

Asmor said:
*Always pointing out that in the course of normal travel with no expectation of combat that, (snip)

What are you guys playing? Monopoly? No expectation of combat?!

Asmor said:
while the party is walking along the path, the rogue is 30-50 feet ahead of and to the side of them traveling through the woods.

Why is scouting annoying? If the trip was really uneventful I don't think these minor details provided would matter. Player says he's scouting, DM says the trip is over, what's the problem?

Asmor said:
*Frequently seeking opportunities to steal simply for the sake of stealing.

Isn't it for the sake of having stuff? You're right, that is annoying.

Asmor said:
I think the rogue class just attracts a certain... let's say, unsavory element.

Do you know what the word "rogue" means in English? Let's say, it doesn't mean "guy who opens doors for others."

Asmor said:
but it's conceivable that someone else might accidentally wander into the rogue territory and not play the class like a jerk.

You mean like a rogue

Actually, if they would have named the class "Jerk" instead I guess it wouldn't have been specific enough. I've seen a lot of wizards played as jerks without the fashion sense of a rogue.

Asmor said:
Ok, I'm done blowing off my steam. Please berate me and tell me that I'm wrong.

I've done my best. Seriously though, I think this is a matter of player cohesion, DM expectations, and that sort of thing. If the player is interested in stealing stuff then why not make up an exciting cat-burglar scenario where the rogue has to break in to a spider-haunted tower and steal some magical jewels for example? Calling someone a jerk about it makes me think that you believe your style/gaming preference to be innately (and obviously) more moral and superior. It's an imaginary game - I'm sure there's some way to work this out with the player so that everyone can be on the same page.