Proposal: Dragon 367

Ozymandias79 · Apr 20, 2009

Proposal Dragon 367
I propose that these articles shall be made legal

Epic Faerûn
Epic Faerun

Ecology of the Genasi
Ecology of the Genasi

Smart Swords
Intelligent Weapons

Children of Darkness
Children of Darkness

Bestiary: Golems and Oozes
Bestiary: Mindless Monstrosities

Playing Gnolls
Playing Gnolls

Class Acts: Swordmage
Dragon 367: Class Acts

Intelligent items, feats for genasis and drows, epic paths, new powers for swordmages and some monsters.

Ozymandias79

covaithe · Apr 20, 2009

I'm working my way through these. I'm by no means finished, but here's a comment: the Elf High Mage epic destiny allows you to perform rituals at half cost. I suggest we consider excluding item creation rituals from that, otherwise we're going to be swimming in cheap magic items and potions as soon as someone takes that path.

elecgraystone · Apr 20, 2009

Well, 21 level is quite far away but it's not a bad idea.

The only thing I say as off is the Claw Fighter feat. I might just be me but I have a hard time figuring out why your claws aren't offhand. Unless I'm a ranger I can't figure out how to use both? But I could figure out two rapiers?

On the rules side, it make all non-offhand melee weapons unusable by non-rangers. With no offhand on claw fighter, you can't make use them since you are always 'considered to have a weapon in each hand' and if you have a weapon in your main hand you can't use non-offhand weapons. I'd suggest adding offhand to the feat.

Claw Fighter

Prerequisite:

Gnoll

Benefit:

You possess vicious claws, which you can use as weapons with a +3 proficiency bonus and 1d6 damage. For purpose of powers and feats, you can treat your claws as light blades [with the offhand property]*, and you are considered to have a weapon in each hand. You cannot enchant your claws. *[suggested change]

JoeNotCharles · Apr 20, 2009

I would interpret that as "you are considered to have a weapon in each hand for purpose of powers and feats" (ie. you can use powers with the Weapon keyword). You are not treated as having a weapon in your hand for the purposes of the rule that says you can't hold two weapons at once, since you aren't actually holding a weapon!

I would argue against giving them the off-hand property, since they aren't a defensive or parrying weapon, and so they shouldn't be useful with feats, powers and class abilities that target off-hand weapons (which are supposed to be explicitly defensive).

Atanatotatos · Apr 20, 2009

Gotta love the children of darkness article. Very flavorful options, very fun mechanically. Don't seem to be unbalanced, either.

JoeNotCharles · Apr 20, 2009

Oh, since the OP links to the individual articles, I just want to remind you that the full PDF sometimes contains updates and corrections. Haven't checked to see if that happened this time, though.

elecgraystone · Apr 20, 2009

JoeNotCharles said:
I would interpret that as "you are considered to have a weapon in each hand for purpose of powers and feats" (ie. you can use powers with the Weapon keyword). You are not treated as having a weapon in your hand for the purposes of the rule that says you can't hold two weapons at once, since you aren't actually holding a weapon!

You could read it that way but by a strict RAW reading they can't use non-off hand weapons. And you CAN 'hold' two weapons without this feat. Spiked gauntlets.

JoeNotCharles said:
I would argue against giving them the off-hand property, since they aren't a defensive or parrying weapon, and so they shouldn't be useful with feats, powers and class abilities that target off-hand weapons (which are supposed to be explicitly defensive).

Leaving them one handed makes you unable to attack with with claws while using a sword in your main hand. That doesn't make sense. If all off hand weapons are 'defensive/parrying', please explain the whip, scourge, light pick, and net. They aren't 'explicitly defensive' at all. It seems like offhand means that the weapon is usable in your off hand while you have another weapon in your main hand. A claw seems the better pick for offhand than a whip or a light pick don't you think?

JoeNotCharles · Apr 20, 2009

The whip, scourge, and net are entangling weapons, which are certainly explicitly defensive (and one of the primary uses of the whip is to intimidate by cracking it rather than cause damage), and the pick has a nice hooked shape for fouling blades, like the sickle.

I'd think a claw would be a stabbing weapon - if you try to actually get it in the way of a blade, you're in for some pain.

A strict RAW reading is ambiguous: is it

[ For purpose of powers and feats, you can treat your claws as light blades ] , and [ you are considered to have a weapon in each hand ]

or is it

[ For purpose of powers and feats, ] [ you can treat your claws as light blades and you are considered to have a weapon in each hand ]

?

English itself is ambiguous here. I think the second makes more sense.

elecgraystone · Apr 20, 2009

Well I have to admit, I don't see anything explicitly defensive in those weapons or in the offhand description/rules in the book. So a trident should be offhand since you can trap weapons in it's tines? It's more defensive that a spiked gauntlet, throwng hammer or a normal dagger. And if entangling weapons are explicitly defensive, what happened to the triple-headed flail? Why did it get the short end of the stick?

Well to each their own I guess. Offhand was just the fix we've done in our real life group. Either way this feat needs a fix/clarification.

covaithe · Apr 23, 2009

ooc: Still working my way through.

The genasi feats seem fairly powerful. Too powerful? Borderline, but I'm currently thinking they're okay.

The intelligent items article I found a bit disappointing. There's nothing there mechanically, really. I can't see approving the specific items there for direct purchase by PCs. ("Excuse me, do you happen to have any frost weapons with the captured spirit of a wyrmling white dragon? Perhaps in a battleaxe?" "Not till next Tuesday...") As a set of guidelines for helping DMs create custom intelligent items, I suppose it's all right, but I don't see it requiring a vote.

The drow feats look fine. The weapons are mostly good. I wonder about the virulent weapon, but I think that's mostly because I wonder about poisons applied to weapons in general. Anyway, that's not going to make me vote no. The paragon path is okay, if boring. The epic destiny is okay, if thematically repulsive.

There's nothing to vote on in the bestiary article; DMs are free to use monsters from wherever they like, though we like it if they tell us where their monsters are from.

The gnoll race looks underpowered to me, but it's slightly less underpowered than the MM version, so I guess that's all right. The feats look fine. I'll think about the offhand business for claw fighter later.

I'm happy with the swordmage powers article.

I'm ready to go ahead and vote YES on everything except the intelligent weapons and bestiary articles, which I don't think contain any content that needs voting on.