How Important is Magic to Dungeons and Dragons? - Third Edition vs Fourth Edition

Kask · Apr 27, 2009

ExploderWizard said:
I think magic is important to any edition of D&D. One problem
with magic in 4E is that its so common that it's become more mundane.

That's true. Now that all classes are actually magic users it loses something.

Scribble · Apr 27, 2009

Kask said:
That's true. Now that all classes are actually magic users it loses something.

That's false. Now that all classes have fun special abilities it gains something.

Kask · Apr 27, 2009

Scribble said:
That's false.

Redefining the word "Rose" changes not its scent.

ExploderWizard · Apr 27, 2009

Scribble said:
That's false. Now that all classes have fun special abilities it gains something.

What exactly has magic gained?

What separates magical from mundane for you?

Scribble · Apr 27, 2009

Kask said:
Redefining the word "Rose" changes not its scent.

Just because it has a scent doesn't make it a rose.

Scribble · Apr 27, 2009

ExploderWizard said:
What exactly has magic gained?

What separates magical from mundane for you?

Depends what you mean by magic really- but in the case of D&D? "Magic" is a mystical artform/science that allows the magician to manipulate the world around him through a combination of ritualistic gestures, sounds, and components.

Mundane is mundane.

Not all things that would be mundane in our world, are mundane in the D&D world. Some stuff is "fun"dane.

fanboy2000 · Apr 27, 2009

ExploderWizard said:
What exactly has magic gained?

What separates magical from mundane for you?

Well, I don't about Scribble, but for me it's mostly how the power is described.

For example, a fighter may have Sure Strike. It allows a fighter to increase his or her chance to hit while denying his or her ability score bonus to damage. This is explained as a fighter taking extra care to aim without putting the speed and force normal expended to make an attack. It could be described as a monk using his ki to hit an enemy instead of his physical prowess, or a wizard using magic to increase the chances of a hit, or a Jedi relying on the Force to guide his or her arm, but it's not so it isn't magic, ki, or the force.

A wizard may have Magic Missile. This a magically created bolt of force, not a crossbow bolt made from wood. Identical mechanics could be given to both, but the flavor makes the difference. I've been known to describe Magic Missile and similer spells as temporaly maifesting a magicical bow or crossbow, actually.

Aside: I was describing a Durger Thurge's use of Firebolt like that in my game on Saturday. I prefaced it with the question "you guys remember the D&D cartoon?" At that point have the group asked "there was a D&D cartoon?" And the rest of us just shook our heads and said "yes." I then continued to run the encounter, but feeling a little bit older.

Kask · Apr 27, 2009

Scribble said:
but in the case of D&D? "Magic" is a mystical artform/science that allows the magician to manipulate the world around him through a combination of ritualistic gestures, sounds, and components.

Really? I've never had a cleric or druid that did that. A Storm Giant uses knowledge of, "a mystical artform/science" to breath water or throw lightning? In the MM it is a natural ability possessed by all Storm Giants.

Maybe you should expand your definition to fit the reality of the game?

Crothian · Apr 27, 2009

Kask said:
Page 92 covers that exact point.

That's nice. Honestly though I'm not sure I care all that much about rules we might have missed on a game I played 25 years ago when I was 10.

Scribble · Apr 27, 2009

Kask said:
Really? I've never had a cleric or druid that did that. A Storm Giant uses knowledge of, "a mystical artform/science" to breath water throw lightning? In the MM it is a natural ability possessed by all Storm Giants.

Maybe you should expand your definition to fit the reality of the game?

Really you've never had a Cleric or Druid use special words, and components, or movements to cast spells?

Ok sure, some things have natural magical talents?

I guess I should have been more clear. I was talking about the "magic system" players commonly have used in D&D- my bad.