My Wizard Build, suggestions?

Are you playing this wizard from level 1 on or do you start at level 30?

If you start at level 1 you should consider just stat him accordingly and play

I have yet to see a a character which doesn´t advance in a total different way as it was "planned"... be it because of enemies fought, story reasons or magic items found... or roleto fit in the group...

ok, i admit it was in 3.x and often resulted in multiclassing (or not, when it was planned), but I imagine this will hold true for 4th edition as well...

As much fun it is to plan a character up to level 20(30), its usually wasted time...

UngeheuerLich said:

I have yet to see a a character which doesn´t advance in a total different way as it was "planned"... be it because of enemies fought, story reasons or magic items found... or roleto fit in the group...

Click to expand...

Especially with a new system.

With my advancements, I often change my mind between levels. Very little goes as planned. And as you said, the character finds new ways of fitting in with and helping the group.

I've only played this one character for more than a few game sessions, we always have fond remembrances of our first...

KarinsDad said:

Also, why would you even want to play a PC that can lock to the level you just described? I just don't get the attraction of "Sorry Mr. DM, I win and your solo loses, next challenge" whenever you want. Unlike cheat codes for a computer program where it is only the player himself, how do the encounters not get boring for everyone at the table when the PC Wizard repeatedly does this? The DM has to thrown in an extra foe every encounter, just to offset the Wizard lock and get back to a normally challenging encounter.

Click to expand...

And herein lies the truth that all players need to learn. When you find something that breaks the game by making a character too powerful through certain combinations (/abuses), instead of saying "Sick, I can make a character that will screw up the game for everyone!", try bringing it up and work with the GM to find a way that the abuse can be prevented at the same time as the intetention(/application) of the feats/powers/whatever is maintained.

Orbizards and all save stacking builds needed gimping, so our group implemented that on a save, regardless of all other modifiers, a 15+ is an automatic save and a 5- is an automatic fail. If you have stacked numbers so that rule is gimping you (i.e. enemy save require > 15), well, shame on you for trying to spoil the game experience for everyone.

BobTheNob said:

Orbizards and all save stacking builds needed gimping, so our group implemented that on a save, regardless of all other modifiers, a 15+ is an automatic save and a 5- is an automatic fail. If you have stacked numbers so that rule is gimping you (i.e. enemy save require > 15), well, shame on you for trying to spoil the game experience for everyone.

Click to expand...

Interesting house rule. I might use this instead of the one we are currently using. Thanks.

Where is the save stacking with the Orb of Imposition? All it says it that you can pick one subject to suffer a minus equal to a Wizard's Wisdom modifier for ONE effect. At the very worst it would be -9 if you min/maxed Wisdom. But I see no problem with -5 given that most logical wizard builds not out to optimize would start at 14(16) if Deva and top out at 22(24) which only gives a -6/-7 at level 26. So I can live with your 5-10 percent nerf.

As a player I am not into character optimization nor are any of the players I have run games for. I find starting with the basic starting array adding your race mods and letting the stat boosts come make for characters that are quite strong at the epic levels without the possible crazy builds that ran rampant in 3.5.

Do what I do and have another solo show up in the same encounter after the first has been locked down. If you find that the Orb Wizard is spamming with a favorite effect. Character Optimization can be a fun exercise but I find them to be one trick ponies, they leave holes. Holes I use to punish them. Alternately I would only change it to -6 given it has more symetry with the highest magic buffs you can have in the game via magic items.

GameJunkie said:

Where is the save stacking with the Orb of Imposition? All it says it that you can pick one subject to suffer a minus equal to a Wizard's Wisdom modifier for ONE effect. At the very worst it would be -9 if you min/maxed Wisdom. But I see no problem with -5 given that most logical wizard builds not out to optimize would start at 14(16) if Deva and top out at 22(24) which only gives a -6/-7 at level 26. So I can live with your 5-10 percent nerf.

Click to expand...

The issue is not just with Orb of Imposition and high Wisdom, but also with certain items and feats and powers.

Spell Focus
Earthroot Staff
Phrenic Crown
Orb of Inescapable Consequences
Cunning Weapon

In fact, a Staff Wizard can lock down quite nicely, it doesn't have to be an Orb Wizard.

A Swordmage can lock down with Fate Spurned Foe (IIRC). There are a lot of combos here.

His house rule takes care of all such permanent or semi-permanent lock down (or even auto-save) possibilities without totally nerfing the concepts.

KarinsDad said:

The issue is not just with Orb of Imposition and high Wisdom, but also with certain items and feats and powers.

Spell Focus
Earthroot Staff
Phrenic Crown
Orb of Inescapable Consequences
Cunning Weapon

In fact, a Staff Wizard can lock down quite nicely, it doesn't have to be an Orb Wizard.

A Swordmage can lock down with Fate Spurned Foe (IIRC). There are a lot of combos here.

His house rule takes care of all such permanent or semi-permanent lock down (or even auto-save) possibilities without totally nerfing the concepts.

Click to expand...

I got you. I said I liked it but for my games I will bump it to 16 or maybe >19 given level 26 Wizards better be able lock down things if they KNOW what they fighting EXACTLY (like that will happen without some work and that said monster couldn't use a ritual or three themselves to change the goalposts) if I use it. Fits my sense of symetry better. Haven't had the chance to get those items as a player and haven't given them out as a DM yet. I have been lucky because the people I run game for don't look to optimize.

I suppose you could have the "help" come in and geek the mage if need be but yeah -5/-6 works for me. Even though none of this is relevent until you well into Epic level.

Victim said:

Why not start with Cleric Multiclass instead of skill training? It gets you religion either way, plus an emergency heal.

Click to expand...

And you can get the Divine Oracle paragon path, which is amazing. Reroll attacks vs. Will, NEVER get surprised (nor do nearby allies get surprised), a nice leader power, and the daily can be "taken back" if you miss.