Magic the Gathering: d20 System

In a stunningly nerdy move, I am attempting (and actually working on currently) a D20 system based on Magic the Gathering. I foresee this move relegating me to the underworld of even this board. However, in an attempt to solicit help or to in order to boost my self-esteem, I am asking for and offering a few things. These are in order of most wanted to least wanted.

HELP:
1. With the rules. - I would like to ask anyone who can or wants to help me with the rules for the game. Not just the over-rules but the more obscure ones, like when you counter a spell, if or how should the countered wizard be able to nullify the spell.
2. Making monsters. - This one is a biggie. It will most likely be the easiest part, but with the number of creatures covered and the limits of my time, I can't make many at a time.
3. Balancing things. - Spells, creatures, abilities/feats.
4. Making spells. - Same as monsters.
5. Anything else you can think of. - Criticism or whatever.

OFFERING:
1. Everything that I've done so far.

Thanks for anyone who wants to contribute or wants the material.

Since both properties became owned by the same company, there has been some crossover between the M:tG and D&D rulesets and fluff, so you might want to start by taking a close look at 3Ed, 3.5 and 4Ed.

Thanks for the advice, but I refuse to use the new 4X crap. Sorry if that makes me a demon, but I only use 3 and 3.5. However, I've tried to find things, and most sources are either incomplete or just bad. In reality, EVERYTHING I've looked at has been one or the other. I'm working on the ground rules right now, and I'll have them up pretty soon so it'll be a better picture.

You seem to have this thread in 2 different places (http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...magic-gathering-d20-system.html#post4794720)- here's what I wrote when I thought the site had eaten my initial post. (You might want to ask a Mod to unify the 2 threads to avoid confusion.)

Since M:tG and D&D became the property of the same company, there has been some crossover between the respective systems. I suggest you take a closer look at 3Ed, 3.5, d20Modern and 4Ed for some inspiration.

I'm not saying they did everything exactly the same or nailed it so that your work would be redundant. I'm just saying there is mutual influence. Some ideas that migrated from Magic have fairly different rates of success & usefulness in D&D. Counterspelling, for example, is MUCH more successful in Magic than D&D.

That said...

How closely do you want to model your RPG after Magic? Remember, Magic is a mana based game (easy to model) that involves a lot of summoning (easy), direct attacks (easy), defenses (easy), disruption of your opponent's plans & tactics (moderate) and environmental alterations (easy) in order to take down a single archmage (tough).

In a sense, that last bit makes me think a bit more of an early OoP WotC product, The Primal Order. (RPGnet : The Inside Scoop on Gaming)

IOW, the perspectives of M:tG and D&D are radically different. Magic focuses on a powerful, almost semi-divine caster, whereas D&D is centered around participants who would- in a sense- be the creatures summoned by a M:tG caster...

Click to expand...

As for 4Ed- don't worry- I don't care for it either.

Dannyalcatraz said:

You might want to ask a Mod to unify the 2 threads to avoid confusion.

Click to expand...

Ayup, and chuck it in the other forum, not this one. You'll probably get more replies over there.

As for MtG d20, there are two (that I know of) already. Kind of, anyway. One is actually MtG d20, give or take a few details of course. The other is more like a way to use magic cards for d20 gaming, I believe. Both have been posted on these forums at least once or twice, albeit some years ago, IIRC.

Yar, I double posted on advice from another user, however, I think that the other board will have a better hit rate, but I will defer to the wisdom of the mods.
So I'll leave my reply over there for right now.

I, too, like the MT:G universe and also share your loathing of 4th ed.

Here are some of my random thoughts concerning the spell conversions:
1) Use a specific, mana-based spell class. As a character goes up in level, they gain a number of available "mana-links." These links provide mana for the casting of spells.
2) MT:G spells have only one component: mana. When a spell is cast, the user "recalls" the feeling/mana of the land and channels the power into the spell. I.e. "recalling" the majesty of the Kehr Peaks would provide the character with red mana for the spell.
3) Each mana must be recalled individually and accounts for the casting time of the spell.
4) Dominarian spell casters would be able to cast any number of spells per day provided they have the mana to do so. Their spell selection, however, would have limits. In this way, model it after the psion class.
5) Once mana is spent, it is not regained until the character rests.
6) New mana links, once available due to level, must be gained in play (in much the same way that familiars are often gained). A period of meditation in and exploration of the land is required. Certain spells ("Fastbond", etc.) would speed up this process considerably.
7) Land may be linked by multiple spell casters
8) "Land" as a unit is of no particular size and represents more a feature than actual acres. For example, a 50' wide glen in the forest would contain as much utility as a large section of desert cliff.

Eh, what are you trying to model?

The flavor of Magic the gather settings?

Godly powered plainswalkers destroying nations and worlds during mere duels between them?

Here was a monster advanced becaue I liked some MTG art

[Sblock=Delraich, soul devouring horror from Magic:the Gathering] Devourer advanced 8HD and power attacked with the fugly stick.


Size/Type: Large Undead (Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 20d12 (130 hp) [140 high average HP]
Initiative: +4
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 24 (-1 size, +15 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 24
Base Attack/Grapple: +10/+23
Attack: Claw +18 melee (1d6+9)
Full Attack: 2 claws +18 melee (1d6+9)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Energy drain, trap essence, spell-like abilities.
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., spell deflection, spell resistance 21, undead traits
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +15
Abilities: Str 29, Dex 10, Con Ø, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 18
Skills: Climb +25, Concentration +27, Diplomacy +5, Jump +25, Listen +26, Move Silently +23, Search +18, Sense Motive +19, Spot +26, Survival +11 (+13 following tracks)
Feats: Blind-Fight[1st], Improved initiative [3rd], Combat Expertise[6th], Great fortitude[9th],Quicken spell like ability (Ghoul touch) [12th] Ability focus (trap essence)[15th] quicken spell like ability (confusion)[18th]
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 13
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral evil
Advancement: 13-24 HD (Large); 25-36 HD (Huge)

Trapped soul; 3d4+3 levels [5 SLA uses per level, 5 uses become 1 negative level on the soul]
       
      

 Quickened Confusion SLA
 Quickened Ghoul Touch SLA

The Delraich is a horror out of nightmares that seems only interested in absorbing souls into itself. Its behaviors and abilities indicate it may have been a Devourer exposed to Far Realm corruption by it devouring a weaker creature of far realm. The corruption seems to be in appearance since the creature has yet to exhibit the common traits of other pseudonatural beings.

The Delraich is about 14 feet tall and weighs 2000 pounds.

The Delraich can speak Common.

Combat
Even if it had no special abilities, the Delraich would be a terrible opponent, for its bony claws can flay enemies alive.

Energy Drain (Su)
Living creatures hit by the Delraich’s claw attack or spectral hand ability gain one negative level. The DC is 20 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Trap Essence (Su)
The Delraich is most feared for its ability to consume an enemy’s life essence. To do so, it must forgo its normal melee attacks and make a trap essence attack. This requires a normal attack roll [+18] but deals no damage. The affected creature must succeed a Fortitude save (DC 26) or die instantly. The save DC is Charisma-based. A slain creature’s essence is trapped within the Delraich’s form, and the victims face appears on the center of the Delraich’s chest. The trapped essence cannot be raised or resurrected, but a limited wish, miracle, or wish spell frees it, as does destroying the Delraich. The Delraich can hold only one essence at a time.

The trapped essence provides the Delraich with enough power to use five spell-like abilities for each Hit Die or level of the trapped creature. As this energy is expended, the face of the trapped soul slides away from the center of the chest. The trapped essence gains one negative level for every five times the Delraich uses one of its spell-like abilities. When the essence’s number of negative levels equals the creature’s total Hit Dice or level, the essence is drained irrevocably and the now soulless face trophy slides far enough from the center of the Delraich’s chest to make room for the next victim. If an essence is freed, the restored creature must succeed on a DC 24 Fortitude save for each negative level or lose that level permanently.

Spell-Like Abilities
At the start of any encounter, the trapped essence within the Delraich is assumed to have 3d4+3 levels (enough fuel for thirty to seventy-five uses). Once per round, the Delraich can use one of the following abilities: confusion (DC 18), control undead (DC 21), ghoul touch (DC 16), lesser planar ally, ray of enfeeblement, spectral hand, suggestion (DC 17), true seeing. Caster level 18th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Spell Deflection (Su)
The trapped essence provides a measure of magical protection. If any of the following spells are cast at the Delraich and overcome its spell resistance, they affect the imprisoned essence instead: banishment, chaos hammer, confusion, crushing despair, detect thoughts, dispel evil, dominate person, fear, geas/quest, holy word, hypnotism, imprisonment, magic jar, maze, suggestion, trap the soul, or any form of charm or compulsion. In many cases, this deflection effectively neutralizes the spell. Some of these effects might eliminate the trapped essence, depriving the Delraich of its spell-like abilities until it can consume another victim.

Undead Traits:
Immune to mind affecting spells and abilities, poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save unless it also works on objects or is harmless. It is not subject to extra damage from critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage to its physical ability scores, ability drain, energy drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or death from massive damage. It cannot be raised, and resurrection works only if it is willing. It has darkvision out to 60 feet. [/Sblock][Sblock=Delraich, soul devouring being of madness - Pseudonatural Version]


Size/Type: Large Undead (Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 20d12 (130 hp) [140 high average HP]
Initiative: +4
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: *24 (-1 size, +15 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 24
Base Attack/Grapple: +10/+23
Attack: Claw +18 melee (1d6+9)
Full Attack: 2 claws +18 melee (1d6+9)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Energy drain, trap essence, spell-like abilities, True strike
Special Qualities: Alternate form, darkvision 60 ft., DR10/Magic, resistance to acid and electricity 15, spell deflection, spell resistance 25, undead traits
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +15
Abilities: Str 29, Dex 10, Con Ø, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 18
Skills: Climb +25, Concentration +27, Diplomacy +5, Jump +25, Listen +26, Move Silently +23, Search +18, Sense Motive +19, Spot +26, Survival +11 (+13 following tracks)
Feats: Blind-Fight[1st], Improved initiative [3rd], Combat Expertise[6th], Great fortitude[9th],Quicken spell like ability (Ghoul touch) [12th] Ability focus (trap essence)[15th] quicken spell like ability (confusion)[18th]
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 15
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral evil
Advancement: 13-24 HD (Large); 25-36 HD (Huge)

Trapped soul; 3d4+3 levels [5 SLA uses per level, 5 uses become 1 negative level on the soul]
       
      

 Quickened Confusion SLA
 Quickened Ghoul Touch SLA
 Su: Attack with true strike benefit

The Delraich is a horror out of nightmares that seems only interested in absorbing souls into itself. Its behaviors and alternate form indicate it may have been a Devourer exposed to Far Realm corruption. Whether that was caused by it entering the Far Raelm through a tear in an outer plane or by it devouring a weaker creature of far realm remains to be divined.

The Delraich is about 14 feet tall and weighs 2000 pounds.

Delraich can speak Common.

Combat
Even if it had no special abilities, the Delraich would be a terrible opponent, for its bony claws can flay enemies alive.

Alternate Form (Su):
Due to the grotesque form of the Delraich, other creatures receive a –1 morale penalty on their attack rolls against it. As a standard action, the Delraich can assume the form of the extraplanar undead creature commonly known as a Devourer . Despite the slightly more terrestrial appearance, its abilities remain unchanged.

Energy Drain (Su)
Living creatures hit by the Delraich’s claw attack or spectral hand ability gain one negative level. The DC is 20 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Trap Essence (Su)
The Delraich is most feared for its ability to consume an enemy’s life essence. To do so, it must forgo its normal melee attacks and make a trap essence attack. This requires a normal attack roll [+18] but deals no damage. The affected creature must succeed a Fortitude save (DC 26) or die instantly. The save DC is Charisma-based. A slain creature’s essence is trapped within the Delraich’s form, and the victims face appears on the center of the Delraich’s chest. The trapped essence cannot be raised or resurrected, but a limited wish, miracle, or wish spell frees it, as does destroying the Delraich. The Delraich can hold only one essence at a time.

The trapped essence provides the Delraich with enough power to use five spell-like abilities for each Hit Die or level of the trapped creature. As this energy is expended, the face of the trapped soul slides away from the center of the chest. The trapped essence gains one negative level for every five times the Delraich uses one of its spell-like abilities. When the essence’s number of negative levels equals the creature’s total Hit Dice or level, the essence is drained irrevocably and the now soulless face trophy slides far enough from the center of the Delraich’s chest to make room for the next victim. If an essence is freed, the restored creature must succeed on a DC 24 Fortitude save for each negative level or lose that level permanently.

True Strike (Su):
Once per day, the Delraich can gain a +20 insight bonus on a single attack roll. In addition, the creature suffers no miss chance against a target that has concealment or total concealment when making this attack. It most often uses this when attempting a trap essence one it has been deprived of a trapped soul.

Spell-Like Abilities
At the start of any encounter, the trapped essence within the Delraich is assumed to have 3d4+3 levels (enough fuel for thirty to seventy-five uses). Once per round, the Delraich can use one of the following abilities: confusion (DC 18), control undead (DC 21), ghoul touch (DC 16), lesser planar ally, ray of enfeeblement, spectral hand, suggestion (DC 17), true seeing. Caster level 18th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Spell Deflection (Su)
The trapped essence provides a measure of magical protection. If any of the following spells are cast at the Delraich and overcome its spell resistance, they affect the imprisoned essence instead: banishment, chaos hammer, confusion, crushing despair, detect thoughts, dispel evil, dominate person, fear, geas/quest, holy word, hypnotism, imprisonment, magic jar, maze, suggestion, trap the soul, or any form of charm or compulsion. In many cases, this deflection effectively neutralizes the spell. Some of these effects might eliminate the trapped essence, depriving the Delraich of its spell-like abilities until it can consume another victim.

Undead Traits:
Immune to mind affecting spells and abilities, poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save unless it also works on objects or is harmless. It is not subject to extra damage from critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage to its physical ability scores, ability drain, energy drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or death from massive damage. It cannot be raised, and resurrection works only if it is willing. It has darkvision out to 60 feet. [/Sblock]

Related threads

http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...st-release-setting-based-magic-gathering.html

http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/155413-m-tg-backstory.html

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4t...9-10-years-later-now-time-use-mtg-ip-d-d.html

http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/171071-mtg-better-storyline.html

I actually think that a d20 conversion of some of the MtG settings would make a great campaign setting. (I especially think the Homelands set and Dominia from Antiquities and Ice Age would make great settings to play in.) The monsters and the flavor would be pretty easy to convert.

However, trying to "emulate" the MtG game play would be a different beast entirely. In the card game (and in the spin off novels) players are assumed to be Planewalkers who are nearly immortal and have the power to destroy lands and continents in their duels. Playing a Planewalker is something that would be hard to do with d20. I think that a system like White Wolf's Exalted would work much better if you are going the Planewalker route.

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I'm stunned that WotC themselves have never cashed in on this. I know a lot of MtG players and D&D players who would jump at the chance to play games in Rath, Dominaria, Mercadia etc. Some utterly fantastic settings, a rich bestiary, lots of new spells, some amazing NPC characters, and an established history.