Proposal: Things to be nerfed - Page 10


What's on your mind?

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Incognito View Post
    I'll dispute this when I get home. I'm pretty sure the weapon line is separate from the hit line.

    Like, 95% sure.
    That's because you read it in an old version of the Compendium, which has since been corrected.

    Like I said last page.

 

  • #92
    Registered User
    Novice (Lvl 1)



    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    49
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Ignore N3rday
    Well, I think most everyone is in agreement that Rain of Blows is overpowered if it is four attacks. I don't see why people care what WotC originally intended - if it's broken, it's broken, and WotC hasn't and won't fix it or rule either way, so we are on our own to make an official L4W interpretation of the power.

    Here are some options, in order from most to least nerfed:

    1. Make 2 attacks, if both hit, make a single secondary attack.
    2. Make 2 attacks, and if the first one hits, make a single secondary attack.
    3. Make 2 attacks, if either hit, make a single secondary attack.


    I'm new to D&D, but that seems like the best solution to me - stop worrying about whether WotC intended it to be 4, and start debating and deciding how L4W should interpret the power.


  • #93
    PbP Addict
    The Great Druid (Lvl 17)

    renau1g's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    16,816
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Ignore renau1g
    My communities:

    Quote Originally Posted by N3rday View Post
    Well, I think most everyone is in agreement that Rain of Blows is overpowered if it is four attacks. I don't see why people care what WotC originally intended - if it's broken, it's broken, and WotC hasn't and won't fix it or rule either way, so we are on our own to make an official L4W interpretation of the power.

    Here are some options, in order from most to least nerfed:

    1. Make 2 attacks, if both hit, make a single secondary attack.
    2. Make 2 attacks, and if the first one hits, make a single secondary attack.
    3. Make 2 attacks, if either hit, make a single secondary attack.


    I'm new to D&D, but that seems like the best solution to me - stop worrying about whether WotC intended it to be 4, and start debating and deciding how L4W should interpret the power.
    I think out of the options that number 3 seems to be the most fair if we're going to nerf any power, which as I've said before I don't think we need to.

  • #94
    Registered User
    Novice (Lvl 1)



    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    49
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Ignore N3rday
    Honestly, I am so new to D&D that I couldn't tell you if the power as WotC wrote it (which I am interpreting as 4 attacks) is overpowered or not. If it is game-breaking, then the solution is to nerf. If it's great but not game-breaking, my vote would be to keep it. Some of the threads I've googled seemed to indicate that it has been an annoyance for strikers, who feel rather useless when their defender cranks out more damage than they do. However, I can see how taking everything into account it might not be so powerful - after all, the actual probability of scoring all 4 attacks isn't great (if to-hit is .55, probability is like 9%). Also, you have to give up some defensive capabilities (Tempest fighters will be wearing chainmail instead of scale to get Tempest Technique, Con score won't be as high since they need 15 dex, etc.) so it seems to me like you're hampering your abilities as a defender to get a bitchin' cool striker move once an encounter. It doesn't seem particularly game-breaking to me, but I can certainly see how some really lucky dice rolls and a crit could totally emasculate the strikers in the group.


  • #95
    Registered User
    Novice (Lvl 1)



    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    235
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Ignore Tinwe
    Quote Originally Posted by N3rday View Post
    it seems to me like you're hampering your abilities as a defender to get a bitchin' cool striker move once an encounter. It doesn't seem particularly game-breaking to me
    The place where it gets game-breaking is when a ranger MC's fighter and uses powerswap feats to pick up Rain of Blows, then uses a combination of class features and feats to recover RoB and reuse it multiple times in 1 encounter. With a warlord doing warlordy things, that ranger is going to drop RoB up to three times in one round. For extra brokenness, an epic-tier ranger activates a daily stance to allow a melee basic attack after every single hit he lands on a target.
    L4E

    Grim
    http://bit.ly/RxUFC
    Init: +3
    Perception: 12 Insight: 12
    HP: 30 Bloodied: 15 Surge Value: 7 Surges: 7
    AC: 16 NAD: 15/14/12 Speed:6
    AP:1 Second Wind:not used
    MBA: +1 Lifedrinking Bastard Sword +8 vs AC 1d10+5

    Hunter's Quarry
    Twin Strike
    Hit and Run

    Predatory Eye
    Off-hand Strike

    Jaws of the Wolf
    Hunter's Privilege
    Shane

    http://bit.ly/2MPJoN
    Init: 2 Speed: 5
    Perception: 14 Insight: 19
    AC: 16 NAD: 12/13/17
    HP: 24 Bloodied: 12
    Surge Value:6 Surges: 8
    Second Wind: Not used
    MBA: Dagger +3 vs AC; 1d4+0
    RBA: Dagger +5 vs AC; 1d4+2

    Astral Seal
    Sacred Flame
    Gaze of Defiance

    Bane
    Healer's Mercy
    Healing Word x2

    Beacon of Hope

    LEB
    Gruff

    http://bit.ly/4eIoAu

    Init: +2
    Perception: 14 Insight: 19
    HP: 49/49 Bloodied: 24 Surge Value: 12 Surges: 11
    AC: 27 NAD: 17/17/17 Speed:5
    AP:1 Second Wind:not used
    MBA: +1 Subtle Kopesh +6 vs AC 1d8+2 (+3 with CA)

    Booming Blade
    Lightning Lure
    Aegis of Ensnarement

    Falcon's Mark
    Dual Lightning Strike



  • #96
    PbP Addict
    The Great Druid (Lvl 17)

    renau1g's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    16,816
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Ignore renau1g
    My communities:

    Just to settle the Rain of Blows debate:

    http://www.enworld.org/forum/4646316-post17.html

    So yeah, it needs nerfing IMHO.

  • #97
    Registered User
    Guide (Lvl 11)

    Oni's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    3,778
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Ignore Oni
    My communities:

    Quote Originally Posted by renau1g View Post
    Just to settle the Rain of Blows debate:

    http://www.enworld.org/forum/4646316-post17.html

    So yeah, it needs nerfing IMHO.

    It evidently didn't settle anything when I posted it back on page 1. :P
    Oni

    "Each man, one way.
    Each horse, one stance.
    Each church, one buddha.
    Each master to his own technique."

  • #98
    Registered User
    Gallant (Lvl 3)



    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    1,887
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Ignore KenHood
    My communities:

    No nerfs.

    Stop it.

  • #99
    Quote Originally Posted by KenHood View Post
    No nerfs.

    Stop it.
    Yes, you've made your opinion known, thanks.

    BTW, too late now, but when approving Forgotten Realms, how'd we let Righteous Rage of Tempus get past?

  • #100
    Registered User
    Gallant (Lvl 3)



    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    1,887
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    Ignore KenHood
    My communities:

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeNotCharles View Post
    Yes, you've made your opinion known, thanks.
    And I will continue to reiterate it.

    The majority of the arguments against a particular power are based upon conjecture, rather than experience. It's like telling everyone to stop driving cars because there's a distinct mathematical possibility that they will get into a collision and die.

    If you have multiple playtesters with actual data and results that validate a particular conclusion, I'm all for making a change.

    However, all I've been reading amounts to...

    "Oh, don't do that! He might be too powerful!"

    "Oh, don't do that! It might break the game!"

    "Oh, don't do that! On a Tuesday, when the moon is full, and a man with a righteous heart says his prayers, a character might instantly kill his target with that power."

    It's like listening to a bunch of soccer moms talking about why they won't let their children go to playgrounds because of all the child-molesters and kidnappers.

    There's a human element that's discounted when everyone starts talking about nerfing the rules: the DM. No set of rules is perfect, but the system has a built-in self-correcting element--that guy that makes up the world the players hang out in. Trust your DM's to have the sense and sensibility to 'fix' the rules when they're broken in a game.

    Why can't we just say, "Shall we use PH2 in L4e?" and leave it at that? After we've put the book into play, once we discover through experience that a particular power is not working, then we can make a global fix. You might discover that the issue never comes up in actual play, and we won't have wasted all this time and effort discussing the issue, when we could have been doing something.

  • + Log in or register to post
    Page 10 of 15 FirstFirst 123456789101112131415 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •