Proposal: Things to be nerfed - Page 3




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  1. #21
    I think the post Oni linked clears it up pretty well. But maybe we should be more concerned with how we should balance it than arguing over what it does.

    Argh, that was worded terribly. What I'm trying to say is that there are two possibilities (well, there are more, but let's say there are only two):

    1. RAW, it gives four attacks and is overpowered. If dropping it down to three balances it, let's drop it down to three.

    2. RAW, it gives three attacks and is balanced.

    So we'll say RoB gives a max of three attacks. Done and done.

    Granted, this assumes RoB is balanced with three attacks. On the one hand, that's pretty good. To my untrained eye, it looks like the best lvl 3 fighter power in the PHB, especially since it can target multiple foes or focus on one unlucky chump. On the other, it requires sub-optimal stats and weapon choices. And with three attacks, I wouldn't say it's that much better than the others, although static bonuses could later show that I don't know what I'm talking about. Also, if you drop it down any further it becomes pretty lackluster.

    Back to the Bloodiron weapons, I think the issue (well, my issue) is that they are (almost) strictly better than Vicious ones. I don't know if the ability is overpowered but I feel a +3 [enhancement] weapon should be roughly equal to any other +3 [enhancement] weapon. Maybe Bloodiron should have a smaller crit die.

 

  • #22
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    Ignore Oni
    Here's another biggie that should be looked at.

    Save penalty stacking, a.k.a. the unholy beast that is the orb lock down wizard, and with every book that comes out it seems like it gets easier and easier to do.
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  • #23
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    Ignore Atanatotatos
    I don't know how I forgot that. It's one of the biggeste problems. My proposals is that every feat, power or item giving a penalty to saves gives a feat, power, or item type penalty resectively.
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  • #24
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    Ignore Tinwe
    Quote Originally Posted by Oni View Post
    Here's another biggie that should be looked at.

    Save penalty stacking, a.k.a. the unholy beast that is the orb lock down wizard, and with every book that comes out it seems like it gets easier and easier to do.
    Concern about the orb wizard is imo pretty misplaced in a PbP game. The build isn't capable of "locking down" an Elite until mid-Paragon Tier, and is played as a standard Staff of Defense control wizard until then. By the time any PbP'ers here hit mid-paragon, MM2 will long have been in the approval window, giving PbP DMs access to the Dual Brain monster template, which allows an automatic save at the start of the monster's turn (thus negating the orbizard's 1/day lockdown).

    In short, it's a nonissue.
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  • #25
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    Ignore Atanatotatos
    Mid-paragon? Heh. No.

    Besides, the idea that every monster should be a dual brain is ridiculous. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but the problem is there, and it cannot be solved as simply as this.
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  • #26
    An interesting suggestion I saw somewhere else on these forums is that, regardless of penalties, a 16+ roll on a save always passes. This still gives a benefit to stacking save penalties, and we don't need to look at every save debuffer to balance them.

  • #27
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    Ignore ukingsken
    I only really want to weigh in on the RRoT.

    As much as I love it from a player point of vew (who wouldn't, especially with Deva Avenger, never miss joy) I totally agree. I mean think about it. Anyone and Everyone who can have it should have that feat, you'd be stupid not to. And it always seems to me without using math or brainpower, anytime a feat is something everyone wants, its broken, or at least in needing of moderation.

    So yeah... take away my RRoT joy, take it away before I make my avenger so I can't cry about losing it.
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  • #28
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    Ignore Tinwe
    Quote Originally Posted by Atanatotatos View Post
    Mid-paragon? Heh. No.

    Besides, the idea that every monster should be a dual brain is ridiculous. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but the problem is there, and it cannot be solved as simply as this.
    Orbwizard at lvl 11 has a maximum of -8 to saves (and that only vs. will). An elite gets +5 to saves.

    An orbizard is not even close to locking down an elite until mid-paragon, and then only 1/day.
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    Init: +3
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    AC: 16 NAD: 15/14/12 Speed:6
    AP:1 Second Wind:not used
    MBA: +1 Lifedrinking Bastard Sword +8 vs AC 1d10+5

    Hunter's Quarry
    Twin Strike
    Hit and Run

    Predatory Eye
    Off-hand Strike

    Jaws of the Wolf
    Hunter's Privilege
    Shane

    http://bit.ly/2MPJoN
    Init: 2 Speed: 5
    Perception: 14 Insight: 19
    AC: 16 NAD: 12/13/17
    HP: 24 Bloodied: 12
    Surge Value:6 Surges: 8
    Second Wind: Not used
    MBA: Dagger +3 vs AC; 1d4+0
    RBA: Dagger +5 vs AC; 1d4+2

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    Gaze of Defiance

    Bane
    Healer's Mercy
    Healing Word x2

    Beacon of Hope

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    Init: +2
    Perception: 14 Insight: 19
    HP: 49/49 Bloodied: 24 Surge Value: 12 Surges: 11
    AC: 27 NAD: 17/17/17 Speed:5
    AP:1 Second Wind:not used
    MBA: +1 Subtle Kopesh +6 vs AC 1d8+2 (+3 with CA)

    Booming Blade
    Lightning Lure
    Aegis of Ensnarement

    Falcon's Mark
    Dual Lightning Strike



  • #29
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    Ignore Atanatotatos
    Lvl 11, you say?

    -2 spell focus
    -2 Earthroot Staff
    -1 spider familiar
    -2 Cunning Longsword
    -1 phrenic crown
    -6 OoI

    That's -14. I'm sure you ca do better if you try.
    I suggest this thread over at wizards to catch the essence of the problem. It's short, and clear IMO.
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    Come join us in the Shifting Seas and Transitive Isles of Living 4th Edition, amazing adventures and great fun guaranteed!
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  • #30
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    Ignore Oni
    Hurm...multi-class Invoker and take the Hammer of Wrath PP for another -2

    If you're worried you're penalty isn't strong enough for a true lock down you could pick up Demand Justice from the Invoker while you're at it, just in case.

    Also Elites only get +2 to saving throws, Solos get +5.
    Last edited by Oni; Wednesday, 27th May, 2009 at 03:39 PM.
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