battlelore vs Memoir '44

these two games use the same system.
Battlelore Fantasy Flight Games [Battlelore] - Leading publisher of board, card, and roleplaying games.

Memoir '44 http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/

Are they interchangeable with each other or is there a huge difference between the two? Is the fantasy "tacked on" or is it original?

I haven't got one or the other. I'm, like you, interested in buying one of these games though and I've done a bit of "research".

I'd say that Battlelore is the most complex of the two games... Although adding the Air pack expansion to Memoir probably makes it as complex as Battlelore too...

I'd say to just go with the "setting" that thrills you the most... And that your friends will find the most interesting.

Oh! Forgot to add that this web site is your friend.

There are 4 games which use the same basic system... The first was Gettysburg or something along those lines, a civil war-themed wargame published by Avalon Hill which I think is now out of print.

Then there's also Command & Colors: Ancients, which is widely regarded as the best of the series, not that the others aren't highly regarded. I actually just got C&C:A as a gift a few weeks ago. The downside with this one is that I spent many, many hours over the course of a few days applying IIRC around 800 stickers to dice and wooden blocks...

Each of the 4 games is a bit different, I believe, though I can't say how much. I've only played BattleLore and C&C:A.

BattleLore adds Lore tokens and personalized decks based on the hero you play (I think the four are Warrior, Cleric, Thief and Wizard, could be wrong).

I posted the same thread at BGG and have gotten some info - thought I would cross post link

I've never played Battlecry (the first game of the system) or Battlelore, but I have played Commands and Colors: Ancients and Memoir '44. I've heard Battlelore is like C&C but with a few extra mechanics attached. Going on that, I would tell you that Memoir is a simpler game, with maybe a little less depth, and Battlelore might be a bit better balanced. The main problem I've had with Memoir are the cards. Often I'll lack the card I want to attack where I need it, leaving me to just fiddle with a few guys out on the flanks. In C&C (and I'm assuming Battelore) the cards work better to keep you from having this problem, as you can often attack with a line of adjacent units that crosses sections. It makes the game a bit less frustrating in certain situations. Otherwise, I'd say go with the theme you think is more interesting. Battelore as a larger number of unit types, but I'm sure they're not too overwhelming. Memoir '44 essentially only has three.

I have memoir. I am not thrilled with it either. Have you played the "overlord" version of memoir. I think it really works better with the larger board and more units. Somehow adding more units makes it less dependent on drawing the "right" card.

I've played a lot*of Memoir '44. With its expansions, I'd say it's a deeper game than BattleLore is at present. BattleLore begins deeper when just comparing their basic sets, but the BattleLore expansions have mostly been profoundly disappointing whilst Memoir '44 has been getting better and better and better.

The Memoir '44 Campaign Book then takes the game to an entirely new level.

Days of Wonder seriously blundered with the expansions to BattleLore: consider that a M44 expansion contains about 44 terrain tiles, 66 plastic miniatures, 8 scenarios and a few badges and tokens (about $33), whilst the bigger BL expansion (Hundred Years War) contains 0 terrain tiles, 32 plastic figures, a few rules summary cards, and only 5 scenarios (about $30)...

I'm sorry. I enjoy BattleLore quite a bit, but the expansions were absolutely pathetic compared to those of Memoir '44. (The M44 expansions also tended to give you a bunch of special rules to play around with: trains, mines, field bunkers, special units and more!)

I'm really hoping that with FFG now owning BattleLore that the expansions will improve their value markedly.

A recent game I had of Memoir '44 had the Russians trying to bring through a train with their reinforcements on it, whilst I had a plane pinning down their troops in another part of the battle... That was a fun game. The basic M44 system is the simplest of the four systems, but the expansions make it far, far superior to BattleLore as it is at present.

Cheers!

Asmor said:

Then there's also Command & Colors: Ancients, which is widely regarded as the best of the series, not that the others aren't highly regarded. I actually just got C&C:A as a gift a few weeks ago. The downside with this one is that I spent many, many hours over the course of a few days applying IIRC around 800 stickers to dice and wooden blocks...

Click to expand...

Took me a while to do that too... (about three hours it seems!)

I haven't played much C&C:A, though I think it's a very good game. The primary difference between it and BattleLore/Memoir '44 is the presence of leaders.

Leaders allow you to activate them and a "line" of units adjacent to them. This feature isn't there in BattleLore or M44, so it can be a lot more forgiving (if you have control over the battlefield) of drawing "bad" cards. You can still draw cards that don't allow you to activate leaders, though.

You can say that C&C:A is about leaders and keeping your units in lines.

Memoir '44 is all about the terrain. Units need to get into good places where they can take advantage of its defensive features. There are no lines - units don't need to be next to each other.

BattleLore is about keeping units in formations whilst avoiding the terrain. BL terrain tends to hurt units slightly more than it helps them. Well, not entirely, but heavy units don't like terrain much!

Meanwhile, BattleLore has resource management in the form of Lore. I'm not 100% convinced by Lore. There are some cards that may have too great an effect. I'm very, very fond of the "Medieval Lore" rules in the 100 Years War and Scottish Wars expansions, which restrict the Lore rules to more of a grace note than a key part of the game.

Cheers!

MerricB said:

Took me a while to do that too... (about three hours it seems!)

I haven't played much C&C:A, though I think it's a very good game. The primary difference between it and BattleLore/Memoir '44 is the presence of leaders.

Leaders allow you to activate them and a "line" of units adjacent to them. This feature isn't there in BattleLore or M44, so it can be a lot more forgiving (if you have control over the battlefield) of drawing "bad" cards. You can still draw cards that don't allow you to activate leaders, though.

You can say that C&C:A is about leaders and keeping your units in lines.

Memoir '44 is all about the terrain. Units need to get into good places where they can take advantage of its defensive features. There are no lines - units don't need to be next to each other.

BattleLore is about keeping units in formations whilst avoiding the terrain. BL terrain tends to hurt units slightly more than it helps them. Well, not entirely, but heavy units don't like terrain much!

Meanwhile, BattleLore has resource management in the form of Lore. I'm not 100% convinced by Lore. There are some cards that may have too great an effect. I'm very, very fond of the "Medieval Lore" rules in the 100 Years War and Scottish Wars expansions, which restrict the Lore rules to more of a grace note than a key part of the game.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

So you would vote for War or the Ring over Battlelore (especially if I own Memoir '44)

bolen said:

So you would vote for War or the Ring over Battlelore (especially if I own Memoir '44)

Click to expand...

Probably. Really, it depends on what sort of game you're likely to play with your friends.

I want to like BattleLore a lot more than I do. I own all the expansions for it except the Troll one (and I'll probably get that one as well), but I think it's been terribly mishandled by DOW - which is such a surprise, because they got M44 100% right!

War of the Ring is a game that takes about 3 hours on average. It's a moderately heavy wargame. Loads of fun, but you need to have someone to play it with! I haven't played it much recently, instead my 2-player games have been Memoir '44, Combat Commander: Europe (& Pacific), Through the Ages and Advanced Squad Leader!

Cheers!