OGL:Someone releases as OGC a most revolutionary & awesome game design.You, Wotc...

ST · Jun 30, 2009

xechnao said:
There has not been something really that groundbreaking to really shake up things -or perhaps it has, thinking of the OGL movement- but it is not that difficult to try to imagine and accept the premise of the thread. And the way of acceptance here is not something that you should really think too hard about. As Scribble noted there is not enough information for such a thing. The new game could be as awesome as you want it to be. The important thing is that it is something so much noticeable in the community as to make it interesting to consider about. This will vary from person to person of course. But it is something you can convince yourself to be thinkable and so to discuss about its plausible or rather possible consequences, according to each one's instincts.

Emphasis mine -- Look, I know what you're saying. But what you're saying is "What if there was an indie game, but it would be so perfectly tailored to me, and something I consider so groundbreaking, that it would have a huge impact on the community?"

The jump there is from "tailored to me" to "huge impact on the community". It's almost narcissistic to go down that path. None of us has a faceless mass, a throng that agrees with us, waiting off in the wings. People have opinions for many different reasons, and even when they match up they don't -- witness threads here where people who like 3.5 or 4e nearly end up arguing with each other about why it's good, even though they both agree it is good.

Yeesh, my head hearts. I dunno what to tell you -- I really only have the energy to care about whether or not a game exists that my current group can play, and will that do the job it purports to. There's no unified community I can concieve of, everyone has their own opinions, and something that's intended to appeal to more than one person is inevitably going to have compromises in it. The more it's intended to appeal to, the more compromises built in.

I understand your thought experiment, I just don't think that it provides useful results. Now, discussing what kind of directions RPGs might go to appeal to a larger market is a great question, so is "is 4e good for the hobby?', etc. etc, but this sort of just mashes a lot of questions together with so many assumptions that it's not particularly useful as is.

Mark · Jun 30, 2009

xechnao said:
OGL:Someone releases as OGC a most revolutionary & awesome game design. You, Wotc...

You are Wotc.
Now, what would you do about it?

If one considers where some of the current designers and/or developers of the game previously worked, and that their styles and ideas were honed there, and if one further believes that through hiring them WotC considers their previous work to be of a quality on par with the above accolades, then one would have to say that we already have an idea how this question is answered.

xechnao · Jun 30, 2009

thecasualoblivion said:
This "value judgement" colors the whole discussion, and indeed when you remove this premise from the original question, there isn't much left to the discussion.

Perhaps for you. Even if this were the case, you either can see past this or you cant. If you cant then you simply cannot participate in the thread. If you keep on thinking about this it will always drag the discussion for you, and for us, since you are replying, to whether we are talking or should be talking if Wotc is bad or good. For me there is more to the discussion than this. For you perhaps not, or since you keep on derailing perhaps you do not want this discussion to take place. If you want we keep on discussing reconsider your POV. If not then just not reply and let it to those that want to talk about it. I have already been asking you this here.

thecasualoblivion · Jun 30, 2009

ST said:
Emphasis mine -- Look, I know what you're saying. But what you're saying is "What if there was an indie game, but it would be so perfectly tailored to me, and something I consider so groundbreaking, that it would have a huge impact on the community?"

The jump there is from "tailored to me" to "huge impact on the community". It's almost narcissistic to go down that path. None of us has a faceless mass, a throng that agrees with us, waiting off in the wings. People have opinions for many different reasons, and even when they match up they don't -- witness threads here where people who like 3.5 or 4e nearly end up arguing with each other about why it's good, even though they both agree it is good.

Yeesh, my head hearts. I dunno what to tell you -- I really only have the energy to care about whether or not a game exists that my current group can play, and will that do the job it purports to. There's no unified community I can concieve of, everyone has their own opinions, and something that's intended to appeal to more than one person is inevitably going to have compromises in it. The more it's intended to appeal to, the more compromises built in.

I understand your thought experiment, I just don't think that it provides useful results. Now, discussing what kind of directions RPGs might go to appeal to a larger market is a great question, so is "is 4e good for the hobby?', etc. etc, but this sort of just mashes a lot of questions together with so many assumptions that it's not particularly useful as is.

Unless he is thinking somewhat of an idealized Open Gaming Content community where people use the Open Gaming philosophy to create a RPG utopia.

xechnao · Jun 30, 2009

ST said:
Emphasis mine -- Look, I know what you're saying. But what you're saying is "What if there was an indie game, but it would be so perfectly tailored to me, and something I consider so groundbreaking, that it would have a huge impact on the community?"

No, you misunderstood me. When I said "as awesome as you want it to be", I did not intend for your personal taste. Remember you are Wotc. I intended as the imaginable entry point for you that you think it would make an impact in the market.

thecasualoblivion · Jun 30, 2009

xechnao said:
Perhaps for you. Even if this were the case, you either can see past this or you cant. If you cant then you simply cannot participate in the thread. If you keep on thinking about this it will always drag the discussion for you, and for us, since you are replying, to whether we are talking or should be talking if Wotc is bad or good. For me there is more to the discussion than this. For you perhaps not, or since you keep on derailing perhaps you do not want this discussion to take place. If you want we keep on discussing reconsider your POV. If not then just not reply and let it to those that want to talk about it. I have already been asking you this here.

So I cannot participate in this thread? Is it really an argument in good faith if I can't question or challenge your basic premise? I don't think a person posting a thread here gets editiorial control of people's replies.

That being said, my point is that while there may be more to the discussion than WotC being bad or good, it is part of the discussion. I can't see how one could discussion or speculate on your OP without considering the current state of the RPG industry, and the significance, positive or negative, of a paradigm change.

Leatherhead · Jun 30, 2009

This thread appears to have been killed by witch-hunts before it really had a chance to get off the ground.

thecasualoblivion · Jun 30, 2009

xechnao said:
No, you misunderstood me. When I said "as awesome as you want it to be", I did not intend for your personal taste. Remember you are Wotc. I intended as the imaginable entry point for you that you think it would make an impact in the market.

So, the discussion is:

Somebody creates the awesomest game ever, and its OGC! You as WotC either:

1. Use your evil corporation powers to smash it
2. Buy it and add it to your portfolio
3. Hire the designer and get him to design D&D
4. Roll over and die
5. Ignore it and watch the brand power of D&D crush it despite its awesomeness

My prediction would be some combination of 2, 3, and 5. Mostly 5.

ggroy · Jun 30, 2009

The most awesomest rpg game would be something like a holodeck version of Forgotten Realms.

jmucchiello · Jun 30, 2009

Xechnao, as someone above mentioned, Mike Mearls is your hypothetical guy. He was hired and help craft 4e. This is exactly what WotC did and would do. So that's the answer. Is there some manner in which Mearls doesn't fit your proposal?