Proposal: Dragon 369 except for Diabolic Stratagem and Minotaur

JoeNotCharles · Jul 18, 2009

Reposting this in a separate thread, since the other one got derailed by Minotaur talk.

Tomalak said:
Bazaar of the Bizare
- Feral armor; has a built-in weapon better than anything in the PHB1 for basic statline. 1d8, +3 proficiency military light blade.
- Pact Bow. Does what it sounds like. Elves only.
- Winged Bracers (Level 12) Hang Glider. Situational usability.
- Fleetrunner Boots. Level 5+. Bonuses on running.
- Ghoststride Boots. + to ac and insubstantial while running.
- Giantkind Gloves. Throw Rocks like an old-school giant. +2 damage with a melee attack (encounter power)
- Mask of the Eye Leech. Daily power; blind someone and gain immunity to blindness. Sustain Minor. Requires attack; Any mental + 2 at heroic tier.
- Periapt of Cascading Health. Encounter Power; Minor Action to auto-save against one effect.
- Baldric of Dividing Ranks. + to AC vs Opportunity attacks from minions. OPD you can move through minions' squares until end of next turn.
- Flagon of Ale Procurement. Silly item Find water or alchohol within 60 sq.
- Treeform Box. Polymorph into a tree. Ends at will (minor action).

Demonomicon; Baphomet
- DM materials regarding the God of Minotaurs. Mostly for epic or late paragon tier.

Io'Vanthar
- Location info, lost city of the Dragonborn.

Creature Incarnations: Gnolls
- Expanded DM resource on Gnolls. Mostly levels 7-12.

Dragon Slayer Perstige Classes
- Class-based paths for PHB1 Classes.

Class Acts: Warlord.
- Ancient warlord tactics from the kingdom of Bael-Turath. 8 New powers (one L1, one L6, the rest higher).
- Mostly (But not entirely) polearm-related.
- Feats: Warlord-to-Warlock MC feats, Infernal Warlock feat to use polearm as Implement.
- Magic Item: L7+ Polearm. Balanced (IMO).

JoeNotCharles said:

This proposal covers all the powers from this article except for Diabolic Stratagem, which has a separate proposal here.

Click to expand...

Bard Preview - Obsolete.

This proposal covers all of Dragon 369, except for the Minotaur article, which is contentious, and Diabolic Stratagem, which is the one Tomalak was waiting for so I proposed it separately so it could be fast-tracked.

To discuss or vote on the minotaur article, go here. To discuss or vote on Diabolic Stratagem, go here.

elecgraystone · Jul 18, 2009

Good call JoeNotCharles. We'll be chewing on the minotaur question for a while.

The only thing I can think of for what was left is the claw fighter feat for the gnolls. The rewording we had before made the feat not suck.

I expect the same issues with the Ghoststride Boots and Giantkind Gloves that I'm having with them over in my living Eberron proposal for Bazaar of the Bizarre. http://www.enworld.org/forum/living-eberron/259434-proposal-bazaar-bizarre-dr-369-a.html

JoeNotCharles · Jul 18, 2009

The Claw Fighter was Dragon 367, and it's already passed. I believe the gnoll article in this one was just new creatures. (Yeah, somebody at WotC was clearly running a Gnoll-centric campaign when these first few issues came out.)

Thanks for that link - some good discussion there. I'm inclined to allow the boots - it seems pretty powerful, but not TOO powerful. And I think the minimum size on the throwing gloves would fix that (I favour 1/2, so you have to throw a BIG rock!)

elecgraystone · Jul 18, 2009

Oops! There WERE two gnoll articles. I was thinking claw fighter had already passed. Glad I'm not crazy!

And no problem with the link. We covered a bit of this ground already, so it'll give us a jump start here.

That was pretty much my feelings on those items. The boots make it ALMOST tempting to run. Too bad running sucks so bad to start off with. In the right situation they are darn good but most times I don't think they'll be TOO useful.

The gloves? Yeah, I wasn't getting the giant throwing feel from the lack of weight for ammo. That and throwing sling bullets for 2d6 unbalanced it. Now 15 lb ammo means you'll only be carrying a few reloads, balances things nicely AND makes you feel like a boulder throwing giant. Win, win!

JoeNotCharles · Jul 21, 2009

Bazaar of the Bizarre:

Feral Armour: I haven't done it, but we need to compare this to the Gnoll Claw Fighter feat (and decide how they interact if needed).

Pact Bow: Seems better than a Pact Blade, and lower level. I say make it level 3. (Ditto Pact Sword and Pact Hammer, really - Pact Hammer takes a level bump because it's so useful with Dwarven Weapon Training - but that's not part of this proposal.)

Giantkind Gloves: I say make the item 10-30 lb.

Dragon Slayers:

These seem pretty powerful, but then so are dragons... I really have a hard time judging if these are over-powered.

Scale-Breaker: Bear the Brunt - if you were already hit, does this make you hit twice?

Warlord:

Caging Glave: Need to specify that you must slide the target by the shortest path, otherwise you could slide them all around the battlefield hitting traps before ending up next to you.

Kyton's Battledance: I know there are already ways to shift as a minor action (be a kobold, for one) but I thought they were considered overpowered and scheduled for nerfing?

JoeNotCharles · Aug 11, 2009

Diabolic Stratagem's looking pretty lonely in the charter, so it's time to vote on the rest of this:

Ok, Feral Armour's weapon is 1d8, while the Claw Fighter is only 1d6, but it doesn't count as a light blade for prereqs so it's not a killer for Rogues. It basically a non-versatile Magic Longsword (a 1-level value) that's built into your level 7 armour. The only people who benefit from this over an actual magic longsword are people without Martial weapon proficiency, who generally don't care.

As for the Pact Bow, I guess I'll go along with precedent and allow it at the given level: nobody else seems to have a problem with Pact Sword and Pact Hammer, so I guess my sense of balance is off here.

For Kyton's Battledance, since it's a daily it's fine. The problem with a kobold is they basically get this for free every fight.

YES to Bazaar of the Bizarre, with the amendment that Giantkind Gloves only work on boulders weighing 10-30 lb.

Abstaining on Dragon-Slayers: I honestly have no idea how these stack up.

YES on Class Acts: Warlord, with the amendment that with Caging Glave you must slide the target by the shortest path.

elecgraystone · Aug 13, 2009

JoeNotCharles said:
Ok, Feral Armour's weapon is 1d8, while the Claw Fighter is only 1d6, but it doesn't count as a light blade for prereqs so it's not a killer for Rogues.

The claw attack from the armor IS a light blade though. At least that's how it's listed in Dragon.

JoeNotCharles · Aug 13, 2009

Oh, you're right, I misread. Also, I keep forgetting that he lowest listed level in a writeup isn't +1.

So, a L7 Feral Armor is +2 Hide with a built-in +2 Magic Rapier (a L6 item) that counts as a military weapon. Nobody except Rogues cares about a rapier (everyone else that can use military weapons just uses a longsword), and Rogues can't use Hide. So for a rogue you're trading off having to spend a feat on Superior Weapon: Rapier against having to spend a feat on Hide Proficiency. So this is a pretty good item for a Brawny Rogue.

However, if you depend on this for your d8 weapon, you can't put extra effects on it, so it's really just a backup weapon - you're going to either be using a d6 weapon as your main weapon, or taking Superior Weapon Proficiency anyway so you can pick up a real magic rapier when you can afford it. This armour is just a low-cost way to pick up a good temporary weapon, but I don't think it's a long-term gain.

So I still think it's fine.

JoeNotCharles · Sep 20, 2009

Bump. It seems the only things brought up as controversial here were Ghoststride Boots and Giantkind Gloves - the rest became legal by acclamation with the new proposal system (although people can still propose otherwise if I missed something.)

So I've made my votes on those two items. Anyone else?