Vampire Bestiary

Yeah, I know. I was saying if you were going to go to the trouble to adapt to PF, there's a lot more work that could be done, even just in clarifying definitions and such.

Oh, well, the way it is, we all get to adapt it to our own tastes.

Upper_Krust said:

I have no problem either way. In fact I don't really see what the differences are (in terms of monsters). The stat-block layout in Pathfinder is slightly superior, but I'm happy with the 3.5 style.

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The differences are subtle to a casual glance, and those unfamiliar with the new system, but in play they actually lead to some pretty significant changes.

For example, Elementals are now Outsiders- no such thing as an Elemental type anymore (instead it's now a subtype of Outsider).

Undead have a smaller hit die and are no longer immune to critical hits or Sneak Attack. Also, Undead with mental ability scores are no longer totally immune to damage to those scores (IIRC), though they are still immune to drain. They are likewise not immune to mental effects the way they used to be, though of course individual templates can still provide immunity.

The "Grapple" modifier no longer works as it did in 3.X; instead one now uses the unified "Combat Maneuver Bonus" for all special combat maneuvers such as Grappling, Overrun, Sunder, and Disarm. To that end, every critter and character now has a "Combat Maneuver Defense" which works against CMB just as AC works against standard Attack Bonus.

Finally, many skills have been merged together (such as Forgery and Speak Language into Linguistics, Hide and Move Silently into Stealth, Spot and Listen into Perception), which greatly reduces the number of rolls one makes in typical play (albeit making some skills "super skills" because they're so much more valuable than others- Perception being the obvious example). Also, the old "x4 skill points for 1st HD" is gone, and cross-class skill ranks are no longer halved (class skills now just grant a +3 bonus), so it's much easier to set up skills for NPCs and smart monsters.

But as you can see, a lot of stuff you put into Ascension is rendered obsolete in Pathfinder. So it'd take some work to adapt.

paradox42 said:

The differences are subtle to a casual glance, and those unfamiliar with the new system,

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While I'm not quite sure how much I'd agree with the "difference in play" part (that I didn't include in the quote above), I'll definitely agree with the part I did quote from paradox42. There's been a _bunch_ of changes done in Pathfinder and you've got to watch out for them. In a lot of ways it's like the update from 3.0 to 3.5; you've got your overall basic system mastery, but enough has shifted that you're second-guessing yourself because you don't know if what you remember is _actually_ what the rules say now or not.

And as was also pointed out, in addition to things like Skills, feats, and spells changing, there were changes made to the monsters as well. Not just the stat-block layout but the stats themselves.

If you want to put this out in Pathfinder format, you should make sure you find yourself someone that's really up on the rules. Adamant put out their book "Tome of Secrets" and were almost immediately taken to task for the errors. To their credit they did go back and address the complaints, but gamers have a long memory and you don't want basic rule errors to be the first thing that pop into people's mind when they hear your product/company's name.

Part of Adamant's problem was that they released the book at the same time the Pathfinder RPG was itself released. Now, they'd clearly gotten an advanced copy of the rules (as had several third-party publishers) and hadn't fully mastered them yet, but that's sort of the point...time (and familiarity) make that sort of thing much easier.

Converting Ascension and the Epic Bestiary Vol. 1 to Pathfinder would be challenging for several for several reasons, the major one being that there are no official epic rules for Pathfinder yet. Hence, any such attempt would be a "hybridized" combination of Pathfinder rules using 3.5 epic conventions, with the Immortal's Handbook changes then made. So yeah, it'd be a very difficult undertaking (and that's not even taking into account the unspoken-but-not-inconsiderable idea that, when/if Paizo does release epic rules for Pathfinder, all of that work would need to be redone to conform to it).

Howdy paradox42 mate!

paradox42 said:

The differences are subtle to a casual glance, and those unfamiliar with the new system, but in play they actually lead to some pretty significant changes.

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Admittedly my study was more superficial overview rather than detailing nuances. So I'll happily defer to you on the matter.

For example, Elementals are now Outsiders- no such thing as an Elemental type anymore (instead it's now a subtype of Outsider).

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Okay.

Undead have a smaller hit die and are no longer immune to critical hits or Sneak Attack.

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Makes sense in the long run, its too big of a nerf to Rogues.

Also, Undead with mental ability scores are no longer totally immune to damage to those scores (IIRC),

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That never made any sense to me in 3E. I always though that you should be able to frighten intelligent undead.

though they are still immune to drain. They are likewise not immune to mental effects the way they used to be, though of course individual templates can still provide immunity.

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*Refrains from saying 4E conditions are better implemented*

The "Grapple" modifier no longer works as it did in 3.X; instead one now uses the unified "Combat Maneuver Bonus" for all special combat maneuvers such as Grappling, Overrun, Sunder, and Disarm. To that end, every critter and character now has a "Combat Maneuver Defense" which works against CMB just as AC works against standard Attack Bonus.

Click to expand...

How has that been working in practice? Or do you still use 3.5E?

Finally, many skills have been merged together (such as Forgery and Speak Language into Linguistics, Hide and Move Silently into Stealth, Spot and Listen into Perception), which greatly reduces the number of rolls one makes in typical play (albeit making some skills "super skills" because they're so much more valuable than others- Perception being the obvious example). Also, the old "x4 skill points for 1st HD" is gone, and cross-class skill ranks are no longer halved (class skills now just grant a +3 bonus), so it's much easier to set up skills for NPCs and smart monsters.

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That makes sense.

But as you can see, a lot of stuff you put into Ascension is rendered obsolete in Pathfinder. So it'd take some work to adapt.

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I had no plans for such an adaption (I don't even own Pathfinder), but it does sound like there would be a bit more work involved than I had imagined.

*I* am not actually using anything at present, the way you mean it, so the question on Combat Maneuvers (the way you asked it) is essentially moot- however I've had ample opportunity to observe how the combat maneuver changes work in play, and I have to say it's impressive how smoothly it all works now. There's incentive to consider use of combat maneuvers even if you don't have the "Improved X" feat to avoid AOOs- it's so easy to Just Do It that you think about it tactically instead of worrying about whether you can (even remember how to) pull it off.

I haven't run any games since finishing my big campaign last year- I am, however, now playing in a PF game run by one of the players in my own big Grand Nexus campaign. Hence my familiarity with some of the rules changes.

Nothing will ever change my mind about 4E. At most I'd snag some of the artwork for wallpapers, but the system itself is too oversimplified for me. My favorite editions will always be the earliest editions of D&D. 3.5 was the last edition for me.

Pathfinder is interesting, but Krusty never did domain conversions for Pathfinder and many 3.5 classes that I love simply aren't a part of the pathfinder system, so I end up borrowing items from pathfinder that I find palatable. I'm especially fond of Pathfinder classes, feats, and monsters.

Howdy Mr Satan!

Incidently, I haven't been completely hibernating, fingers crossed I'll have the Vampire Bestiary finished by Friday the 28th of October (whether that will be the date of release is another thing but I am convinced it will be finished by that time...give or take a day).

Mr.Satan said:

Nothing will ever change my mind about 4E. At most I'd snag some of the artwork for wallpapers, but the system itself is too oversimplified for me. My favorite editions will always be the earliest editions of D&D. 3.5 was the last edition for me.

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Sorry the system isn't for you.

Pathfinder is interesting, but Krusty never did domain conversions for Pathfinder and many 3.5 classes that I love simply aren't a part of the pathfinder system, so I end up borrowing items from pathfinder that I find palatable. I'm especially fond of Pathfinder classes, feats, and monsters.

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Pathfinder just didn't improve anything for me, so it still has all the same problems, but if people are enjoying it best wishes to them.

What is the current status of the Vampire Bestiary?

Howdy Khisanth mate!

Khisanth the Ancient said:

What is the current status of the Vampire Bestiary?

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- Monster design section needs about an hours work, pretty straightforward.
- Traps/Hazards section needs a few hours work, nothing major.
- Wights/Wendigos need a few hours work, nothing major.

Should have all that done by tomorrow.

- Three Vampire stat-blocks (Obayifo, Uktena and Soul Eater) need a bit of polishing), I'm really not happy with the Soul Eater even though its done, the Obayifo is probably the only obviously unfinished stat-block. The Uktena stat-block is finished but there is an Artifact thats part of its write-up which basically needs done. All in all about 6-8 hours work.

Fingers crossed I can get that all done on Monday (though I do need to go out on Monday for a few hours to get groceries).

- Adventure section needs a days work, maybe a day and a half, tops.

If it was anyone other than me doing it, I'd say the book will be finished by this Wednesday.

At the back of my mind I am thinking I need to design a new Eternity Publishing logo for the cover. I also need to do a back cover (trade blurb and so forth). Plus I'd need to do bookmarks and a table of contents on the pdf. document.

I'll come back at the end of every day this week starting Sunday night and repost what I have got finished that day.