Converting "Real World" Animals and Vermin

cluster (2-12)?

Sounds good.

I noticed upthread you expressed concern over the AC. It is a tad high. Shave a few points off natural armor (say, to +2 or +3)? It would make sense, since it is grublike, rather than possessing a beetle's exoskeleton.

That seems reasonable. As long as Cleon doesn't object, let's drop the natural armor to +3. On the other hand, I just noticed that a lot of vermin have sort of inflated AC for their CR, so I guess +5 isn't so bad either.

Shade said:

Sounds good.

I noticed upthread you expressed concern over the AC. It is a tad high. Shave a few points off natural armor (say, to +2 or +3)? It would make sense, since it is grublike, rather than possessing a beetle's exoskeleton.

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The larvae do have an fairly tough exoskeleton, although it's nothing like as hard as a beetle's wing-cases they're not soft bodied like a maggot or caterpillar. I wouldn't object to dropping their NA to +4 like a Medium Scorpion and would go along with +3 if needed.

It mostly depends on what NA we want the adult to have - if we go for +8 like the original's AC2 suggests then I'd keep the larva NA +5. (Incidentally, the Giant Stag Beetle is Large and NA +10, so if we downsized one to Medium it would be NA +8).

The rest of it looks fine, except I'd add the following to Combat:

Acid (Ex): The acid of a diving beetle larva's bite only harms organic materials. It has no effect on metal or stone, but dissolves flesh, leather and wood.

+4 natural is ok, and the acid write-up is good. Ready for the adult?

freyar said:

+4 natural is ok, and the acid write-up is good. Ready for the adult?

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I'd prefer +5 but I'm OK with +4. I'll leave it up to Shade.

Let's get started on the adult then!

I mentioned earlier it has the same NA as a downsized Giant Stag Beetle (hereafter a GSB), so how about using that as a basis - it's about the right size (5-6 feet is half a GSB's 10 foot length and 4HD vs the GSB's 7HD).

Downsizing a GSB to Medium would give it Str 15, Dex 12, Con 13. I don't think it should have a higher Dex and lower Con than the larva (if anything, it should be the other way around), so I'll swap 2 points from one to t'other to make it Str 15, Dex 10, Con 15.

The adult doesn't have gills so should lose the Aquatic subtype, but I would think it should have the Hold Breath SQ since they can stay submerged for a long time. Somewhere between 4 and 8 times Constitution?

We'll also need to plug in in a 1d4 bite and a fly and swim speeds to match the AD&D adult diving beetle (also the same as a Giant Bombardier Beetle).

Altogether that would give something like:

Adult Diving Beetle, Giant
Medium Vermin
Hit Dice: 4d8+8 (26)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), swim 40 ft., fly 20 ft. (average)
Armor Class: 18 (natural +8), touch 10, flat-footed 18
BAB/Grapple: +3/+5
Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d4+2)
Special Attack: None ?
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., hold breath [Con*6?], vermin traits
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +1, Will +1
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 10, Con 15, Int 0, Wis 10, Cha 9

Hmm, matching the fly speed to the original's 9" looks too low to me - diving beetles are fairly good flyers, so I'd up it to 40 ft., or at least 30 ft.

Looking pretty good to me. 30 ft or 40 ft fly speed is ok too.

40 feet works for me, and x6 for the hold breath modifier.

The rest looks good.

Shade said:

40 feet works for me, and x6 for the hold breath modifier.

The rest looks good.

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Great! That's about it then, apart from some flavour text.

Added to Homebrews.

Challenge Rating: x

Advancement: x