DM Genie

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to let everyone know out there that this program is great. much better then campagin suite or DM Familar.

Go to www.dmgenie.com and see for yourself.


Delak

Delak said:

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to let everyone know out there that this program is great. much better then campagin suite or DM Familar.

Go to www.dmgenie.com and see for yourself.


Delak

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Can you fill us all in a little more? What makes it better than Campaign Suite and DM Familiar, all of which are fine programs?

Here is what i feel makes it better then the other two.

It combines the combat managment and enconter managment of DM Familar with a much better form of campagin managment.

You can enter in the PC's as they are no need to modify a generated character.

The campagin tree is very easy to use you can add maps and create hotspots that link them to infomartion on other tabs in the adventure. You can also link anything in the notes field to any tab in the adventure.

There is no character generator per say but you can import stat block npc's or even pc's. If the all the better character generators out there with stat block formating its very easy to add pc's npc's or monsters.

You can import maps and pictures

Problems...

Hmmm...

This may well seem better than Campagin Suite or DM Familar. On the surface it looks quite pretty without going much into 3rd edition mechanics calculations or flexibility. It's never approaching PCGen for mechanics calculations, as an example.

But...

This is going to have some very serious problems with section 8 compliance of the Open Gaming License.

I feel for these guys, since the section 8 compliance can easily catch you out, and is the hardest part, by far, to live up to. They seemed to sort the more obvious D20 license issues. The issues aren't very obvious at all, from a casual glance. On the other hand, since they're asking as much as the price of E-Tools (ie. a commercial venture), a bit more legal research would have been a good idea. There's certainly plenty of section 8 compliance problems discussion in the official mail list archives. PCGen did a lot of work to fix up the basics there.

They've gone for the D20 license (which Campaign Suite recently decided to give up), but can't even live up to the OGL - which legally leaves them nowhere.

I greatly suspect that Wizard's will shut this one down till the issues are addressed, and that fixing up the problems is going to require very major, serious programming surgery (I know exactly what I'm talking about here...).

The constant different types of reminders to register the software (even directly from PCs after their attacks!), is ...interesting. From a personal perspective I think it's way too early to ask money for it. It seems that there's lot of stuff that you still have to do manually. Doing everything manually helps avoid section 8 license problems (like DM's Familiar). Watch out for ending up with a tool that is little more than an RPG wordprocessor, and begs the question whether all the data entry and manual calculations make it worth using a computer at all.
I'd recommend researching section 8 issues in the official OGL list archives.

Regards,

Delak said:

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to let everyone know out there that this program is great. much better then campagin suite or DM Familar.

Click to expand...

Having had a couple of looks, I myself have seen some pretty big differences between Campaign Suite and this program. Granted, it does combat management - something we have never even claimed to do. So, naturally, it is better at Combat Management.

The fact that so many rules are hard-coded will result in a problem much as e-Tools has, where one cannot add certain features from certain books simply because there is no methodology of doing so. CS is presented as a configurable program, where everything is data-driven rather than code-driven.

The computer-assisted gaming market has a lot to offer lately, huh? (Those of us competing for your gaming dollars might even call the market "crowded").

I think the competition is good. The more programs out there to choose from, the more people will start thinking they might want a computer at the gaming table. And that gives me a chance to win those dollars.

DMGenie looks interesting though I only gave it a very cursory look. Chris and Luke seem to see some problems. I would encourage people to compare.

So, for the prospective gamer who wants to delve into computer-aided gaming, what's out there? (If I miss anything or get anything wrong guys, be sure to let me know).

Character Generation : These are programs to help create PCs/NPCs and do the calculations for you. Examples: PCGen, E:Tools, Campagn Suite, Roleplaying Master.
Interestingly, programs that don't do character generation are starting to import from programs that do. Examples: DM's Familiar, DMGenie.

Combat Management A program that manages combat for you. Does things like rolling initiative, keeping track of rounds, keeping notes, makes attack/damage rolls, tracks spell durations, etc. These are programs meant to be used at the gaming table during the game. Examples: DM's Familiar, DMGenie, Role-playing Master, Crystalball (Mac), assorted Excel spreadsheets out there.

Game Prep Software that helps you write adventures, setup your campaign world, and, in general, write notes. This might be software you use before the game, print it, and bring paper to the game, or it might be a program you use at the game table. Examples: DM's Familiar, Campaign Suite, Roleplaying Master, DMGenie.

Rules Reference This is software that puts the rulles - Spells, Monsters, Rules, Feats, Skills, etc. - at your fingertips so you don't have to lug a bunch of books to each game session or know which book a particular thing is in. Examples: Pretty much all of them.

Random Tables Programs that can generatre random results for you, whether it be the innkeep's name, treasure, wandering monster, etc. Examples: Tablesmith, Campaign Suite, RPM (I think?)

Miscellaneous Programs that do assorted "little" things. Weather generation programs like WeatherMaster or Kaima Weather Generator. Anything else?

As you see, many of the programs encompass multiple desirable things. Check out a couple of them and see which ones you like. Some things to keep in mind when reviewing software:

* Interface: Does the interface make sense to you? Is it easy to use? D&D involves dice & books. If the program is making it much more complicated than that, it's probably going to detract from your gaming, not enhance it.

* Customizable: Can the program handle your house rules? Do you have house rules? Is it flexible enough to deal with the way you want to game? If it does allow a way to customize the program, how hard is it to customize?

* Support and Longevity: All of these programs are relatively new to the market. Is this a supported, growing program that is going to be around for a while? Are bugs getting fixed? New features introducted? How easy is it to ask questions and get answers?

* Cost: Price is probably something you'll want to think about at least a little. For me, I take my gaming fairly seriously. I'd much rather spend $30 on something that helps my game a lot than a free program that only helps a little. Those with different budgets/goals may think differently.

* Expandability: What happens when Company Y comes out with Product X and you want it? Can that information get entered into the program easily? Are you going to have to type all that information or does the program support some Import/Export features?

(Apologies to Crystalball for the Mac. I don't know anything about it. It probably does several of the things above and I didn't give it credit for. If you have a Mac, be sure to look into this program.)

(Apologies to DM Buddy, I know nothing about it.)

DMFTodd said:

Game Prep Software that helps you write adventures, setup your campaign world, and, in general, write notes. This might be software you use before the game, print it, and bring paper to the game, or it might be a program you use at the game table. Examples: DM's Familiar, Campaign Suite, Roleplaying Master, DMGenie.


Random Tables Programs that can generatre random results for you, whether it be the innkeep's name, treasure, wandering monster, etc. Examples: Tablesmith, Campaign Suite, RPM (I think?)

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I think eTools should be added to both of those list.
First, I use it for game prep from creating encounters, setting up the treasure list, etc. I just paste it into Word and I am all set.

And Table Generation, eTools has a table generator that some would argue is almost as powerful as Tablesmith. Plus it integrates back into the other objects of the program.

Just wanted to point that out.

Hello!

My name is Janik Zikovsky, and I wrote DM Genie (sorry for not posting earlier, I don't visit the Enworld messageboards too often).

I'd like to reply to some of your concerns:

(From Twin Rose) The fact that so many rules are hard-coded will result in a problem much as e-Tools has, where one cannot add certain features from certain books simply because there is no methodology of doing so. CS is presented as a configurable program, where everything is data-driven rather than code-driven.

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My feeling on this is that the average user will never need to alter the basic game mechanics (for example, no one would want to turn the system on something based on d30...). Also, while I could have integrated some sort of generalized script engine, I believe this would be too difficult a feature, even for an advanced user (except those with good programming skills). Future updates will include extra game mechanics, without the need for users to learn and program it themselves.

(From Luke) This is going to have some very serious problems with section 8 compliance of the Open Gaming License.

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Section 8 says: "Identification: If you distribute Open Game Content You must clearly indicate which portions of the work that you are distributing are Open Game Content."

If you go to the Help->About box, you'll see "The rules, creature statistics, race statistics, conditions, spells, powers, feats, skills are distributed as Open Game Content and are licensed for public use under the terms of the Open Game License v1.0a.
DM Genie program code, interface, graphics, layout, algorithms are all Copyright 2002, Janik Zikovsky, Author."

I hope that is clearly identified enough, if WotC has concerns i'll change it. They haven't complained yet, but then again the program just came out ;-)

It seems that there's lot of stuff that you still have to do manually.

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I wouldn't say a lot - all attack/damage etc. bonuses are automatically calculated, which really is the big part of the work, and what I wanted a program to take care of. Features which I believed could be done faster manually are left to the DM to do. For example, setting a target for each attack takes a while to do in a program, I think it's easier just to report the total attack value, and let the DM say: "Well, Markus, your character was hit by the skeleton". The player records the damage, and the game moves on - it's faster than trying to keep track of the PCs, NPCs and the monsters. The DM has enough to do

P.S. DMFTodd mentionned weather generators, I should point out that DM Genie has a weather generator function which I think is pretty cool (I had fun programming it). Try it (Shift-F11)!

Thanks to all, and happy gaming!

Janik said:

Hello!

Section 8 says: "Identification: If you distribute Open Game Content You must clearly indicate which portions of the work that you are distributing are Open Game Content."

If you go to the Help->About box, you'll see "The rules, creature statistics, race statistics, conditions, spells, powers, feats, skills are distributed as Open Game Content and are licensed for public use under the terms of the Open Game License v1.0a.
DM Genie program code, interface, graphics, layout, algorithms are all Copyright 2002, Janik Zikovsky, Author."

I hope that is clearly identified enough, if WotC has concerns i'll change it. They haven't complained yet, but then again the program just came out ;-)


I wouldn't say a lot - all attack/damage etc. bonuses are automatically calculated, which really is the big part of the work, and what I wanted a program to take care of. Features which I believed could be done faster manually are left to the DM to do. For example, setting a target for each attack takes a while to do in a program, I think it's easier just to report the total attack value, and let the DM say: "Well, Markus, your character was hit by the skeleton". The player records the damage, and the game moves on - it's faster than trying to keep track of the PCs, NPCs and the monsters. The DM has enough to do

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You will definately want to check with WOTC before they check with you, this is something that I learned through my dealings with them in the course of developing Campaign Suite. They are VERY particular about 'clearly marking' OGC, including all game mechanics such as calculations.

A number of websites, generators, and other electronic products have been shut down in recen tweeks by Wizard's of the Coast, so you really want to be careful and check with them.

Janik said:

Section 8 says: "Identification: If you distribute Open Game Content You must clearly indicate which portions of the work that you are distributing are Open Game Content."

If you go to the Help->About box, you'll see "The rules, creature statistics, race statistics, conditions, spells, powers, feats, skills are distributed as Open Game Content and are licensed for public use under the terms of the Open Game License v1.0a.
DM Genie program code, interface, graphics, layout, algorithms are all Copyright 2002, Janik Zikovsky, Author."

I hope that is clearly identified enough, if WotC has concerns i'll change it. They haven't complained yet, but then again the program just came out ;-)

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HiYa Janik,

Welcome to 3rd edition RPG programming
Be certain that Wizards are now looking at DM Genie.

I'll stand by those section 8 warnings - here's the (non-obvious) issue:
Clearly indicating portions that you use actually means that you need to "provide the code" that does any calculations of rules from the SRD. The code must be human readable (script is okay), and actually be what is executed (distributing your source code, along with a compiled binary is not sufficient).

For example, determining that a Str of 18 has a Str mod of +4 is a game mechanic, and you must be able to see the code that does this calculation.
If you work out the Reflex save bonus, based on level, dex, and other things - this is also a game mechanic where you need to show all the code that does that work.
Working out an AC, initiative modifiers etc etc etc are all part of that.

Essentially, any game mechanic you perform can't be part of a compiled (non-human readable) binary, since it is then no longer clearly indicated.

There's your catch 22. The nicer you make your program, by automatically working out things, the more you violate section 8, unless you go to a lot of effort, as I did with RPM.

In RPM I've developed a specialized RPG scripting language from the basics of JavaScript. Having made that effort, I'm pretty well free to offer the best possible computerized RPG utility without license problems. After recent scrutiny by Wizards, I only needed to dot my "i"s and cross my "t"s with regard to displaying the license, and watch my trademark references. My program is fine. Well, sort of. You never actually get to say that you are OGL/D20 compliant (though you may have read such claims). All you ever get to say is that Wizards don't have any issues with you currently outstanding.

You *may* also have some problems with your interactive game D20 compliance. I understand your interpretation that you're okay since you show what AC an attack can hit, rather than actually target an opponent and fully work it out. You *may* find that the interpretation is that you have determined the success of hitting a particular AC, even if you don't apply it to a specific target. The bottom line is that truly useful software and the D20 trademark just don't mix.

You have an "ultimate utility" description of DM Genie, so you may want to consider doing the whole thing, by making the effort to get your section 8 issues firmly smacked on the head

Hope I didn't offend with the "it's too early to charge people" comment. I'd just hate to see that people pay and then find that they can't get update fixes because it's shut down by Wizards. My worry is that you'll either have to pull features that they paid for, or you'll disappear for a long time trying to get section 8 compliance working. You made a good visual start...

I apologise for my part in turning this "DM Genie" post into a general software utility and compliance thread. I guess that the comparison to other products kind of invited it, and the compliance issues are important.

Regards,