WotBS Increasing difficulty for 6 players (4e WotBS)

Heyas folks,

Seems things have gone quite here for a few days, looking for some help with my current campaign in order to make it work for 6 players. I have access to DDI and the Monster Builder so it makes leveling up bad guys quite a bit easier. What I would like from people is how to make the battles more challenging for 6 players, including both a cleric and Warlord. I think that there are two general ways of approaching this. A) Increase the level of monsters across the board or just a key few. B) Add more bad guys of the same type, doesn't work for some encounters. So what do others think? Going to outline what I have planned for the next few encounters, starting with Flaganus.

Flaganus Mortus: Level increased to a level 4 solo controller
White Wyrms: Increase # of gaurds and bandits by 1 each
Dead Rising: ?? More Minions, don't want more boneshards

Thanks for the help.

Cheers,
E

So here's what I did (for 5 players, but HEAVILY optimized players):
1) Used an updated tougher Flaganus that Merchantsteve sent me; check your PM after I post this. He was, however, still too easy for the PC's so I would suggest adding some sort of rechargable power that could be used as a minor action (something that weakens them maybe; that condition hasn't surfaced much...). If the PC's fight him in the home, perhaps make the wyvern's tail a trap as it flails about in it's death throes(?)

2) Whyte Wyrms: I added a Storm mage and together they managed to double whammy the PC's for round 1. But, like your group, I had a healer in a bada$$ shaman, so the PC's owned the next rounds. The mountain pseudodragon escaped but the baddies were whupped. I wouldn't actually add more in terms of bad guys if Dead Rising occurs before dailies are recharged. I think I could've made the crates more interesting. My rogue was so acrobatic, there was little risk. Up that DC and then add an attack as a minor action to your soldiers along the lines of:

Topple Crates(minor action; may only be used when White Wyrm is adjacent to area of crates): +5 v. Reflex/ 1d6+2 damage and target is knocked prone and slowed until the beginning of White Wyrm's next turn. The Whyte Wyrm shifts back 1 square as part of this attack. Pc's square and all adjacent squares are considered difficult terrain until the end of the turn.

I'm not good at writing these attacks, but you get the jist. I would also allow the PC's to try that attack if they state so (it's where I got the idea from as they toppled a White Wyrm sniping at them from above).

Dead Rising: Even my maximised party could've croaked (though it wasn't as brutal as others have been posting; I had actually ADDED a boneshard before all the hooplah on these boards came out!). Keep it unchanged for 6: the narrow confines will almost serve to make this a tough power. Play it by ear in terms of damage output. If the PC's are getting hosed, you can always not have additional boneshard explosions ("They had a 50/50 chance of exploding upon bloodied or death.")

I can't find the PM; I must have cleared it from my mailbox... MerchantSteve, any chance you have it in your sent box?

I would love to see the muchly improved Flaganus. As he stands right now he is barely a threat to the party. I totally miscalculated the previous encounter difficulties, so I think only one of the party has used their daily...

White Wyrms: The topple crate ability sounds like a blast! I will have to give that a try! Hmm another storm mage eh? Might try that as well.

Dead Rising: I am planning on decreasing the damage from the explosions by a dice (2d6+4 instead of 3d6+4) and increasing the size of the room by using the expanded map provided here on the forums. I was actually thinking that having a trap similar to the poison apple collapsing ceiling since the place just went under some massive damage. I want to turn it into something other than a slug fest.

Probably don't have to adjust Shealis much, though the Solon will be another issue. He was nearly impossible to hit when they encountered him with Larion.

Got another week or two before my next game, so looking to make these battles quite engaging and interesting! Thanks for all the help so far.

Cheers,
E

I purged my PM of Flaganus, but here is a beefier version. An extra level and a Parry and Riposte exploit that grants combat advantage. Ragesian Resolve also is rechargeable.

Flaganus Mortus 2 (F) Level 4 Solo Soldier
Medium natural humanoid (half-orc) XP 875
Initiative +2 Senses Perception +4
HP 220; Bloodied 110
AC 21; Fortitude 19, Reflex 16, Will 16
Resist 5 fire, 5 necrotic (from black iron plate armor +1)
Saving Throws +5
Speed 5
Action Points 2
++++++++++++
M Battleaxe (standard; at-will) * Weapon
+11 vs. AC; 1d10+3 damage. Add +1 damage when used 2H
++++++++++++
M Short sword, silvered (standard; at-will) * Weapon
+11 vs. AC; 1d6+3 damage.
++++++++++++
m Double Attack (standard; at-will) * Weapon
Flaganus makes two battleaxe attacks.
++++++++++++
m Unbeatable (minor; daily) * Healing
Flaganus gains 2d62 temporary hit points.
++++++++++++
m Concentrated Force (standard; recharge 56) * Weapon
+11 vs. AC; 3d10+3 damage (battleaxe, +1 damage when used 2H) or 3d6+3 damage (short sword), and the target is stunned until the end of Flaganus' next turn.
++++++++++++
m Parry and Riposte (immediate reaction, when an enemy misses Flaganus with a melee attack; recharge 56) * Weapon
Requires Battleaxe; targets the attacker; +11 vs. AC; 1d10+3 damage, and the target grants combat advantage to Flaganus until the end of Flaganus' next turn.
++++++++++++
m Ragesian Resolve (immediate reaction, when Flaganus suffers an effect that a save can end; recharge 56)
Flaganus rolls a saving throw against the triggering effect.
++++++++++++
c Ragesian Scythe (standard; recharge 456) * Weapon
Requires Battleaxe; targets enemies in burst; close burst 1; +9 vs. AC; 1d10+3 damage, and the target is pushed 1 square and knocked prone. Add +1 damage when used 2H
++++++++++++
Alignment Evil Languages Common, Giant
Skills Athletics +10, Intimidate +8
Str 17 (+5) Dex 13 (+3) Wis 14 (+4)
Con 15 (+4) Int 14 (+4) Cha 12 (+3)
Equipment Battleaxe, black iron plate +1, silvered short sword

Awesome thanks Steve! Guessing Unbeatable should be 2d6 temp hp not 2d62? >.< I would love to haul out two massive dice to roll in front of the players!

On a side note, has anybody looked into using this software for tracking combats? I am going to input all the monsters via the Monster Builder into it and give it a try for next session. I will keep everybody posted.

Cheers,
E

merchantsteve said:

I purged my PM of Flaganus, but here is a beefier version. An extra level and a Parry and Riposte exploit that grants combat advantage. Ragesian Resolve also is rechargeable.

Flaganus Mortus 2 (F) Level 4 Solo Soldier
Medium natural humanoid (half-orc) XP 875
Initiative +2 Senses Perception +4
HP 220; Bloodied 110
AC 21; Fortitude 19, Reflex 16, Will 16
Resist 5 fire, 5 necrotic (from black iron plate armor +1)
Saving Throws +5
Speed 5
Action Points 2
++++++++++++
M Battleaxe (standard; at-will) * Weapon
+11 vs. AC; 1d10+3 damage. Add +1 damage when used 2H
++++++++++++
M Short sword, silvered (standard; at-will) * Weapon
+11 vs. AC; 1d6+3 damage.
++++++++++++
m Double Attack (standard; at-will) * Weapon
Flaganus makes two battleaxe attacks.
++++++++++++
m Unbeatable (minor; daily) * Healing
Flaganus gains 2d62 temporary hit points.
++++++++++++
m Concentrated Force (standard; recharge 56) * Weapon
+11 vs. AC; 3d10+3 damage (battleaxe, +1 damage when used 2H) or 3d6+3 damage (short sword), and the target is stunned until the end of Flaganus' next turn.
++++++++++++
m Parry and Riposte (immediate reaction, when an enemy misses Flaganus with a melee attack; recharge 56) * Weapon
Requires Battleaxe; targets the attacker; +11 vs. AC; 1d10+3 damage, and the target grants combat advantage to Flaganus until the end of Flaganus' next turn.
++++++++++++
m Ragesian Resolve (immediate reaction, when Flaganus suffers an effect that a save can end; recharge 56)
Flaganus rolls a saving throw against the triggering effect.
++++++++++++
c Ragesian Scythe (standard; recharge 456) * Weapon
Requires Battleaxe; targets enemies in burst; close burst 1; +9 vs. AC; 1d10+3 damage, and the target is pushed 1 square and knocked prone. Add +1 damage when used 2H
++++++++++++
Alignment Evil Languages Common, Giant
Skills Athletics +10, Intimidate +8
Str 17 (+5) Dex 13 (+3) Wis 14 (+4)
Con 15 (+4) Int 14 (+4) Cha 12 (+3)
Equipment Battleaxe, black iron plate +1, silvered short sword

Click to expand...

I have a general rule for making encounters for more than 5 players:
Make one of the monsters an Elite per additional player.

The "template" I usually use is a general one: +1 to all defenses, +1 to hit, +2 to damage, 2xHP, Action Point. This doesn't really resemble any of the official templates, but it is very easy to add on the fly. I prefer to do this on a Soldier as they are usually the toughest mobs in town.

If I there is an encounter with a solo I prefer adding an elite sidekick or something similar.

Thanks Blackbrrd, I will have to try that out and see how it works.

I had an interesting idea for the White Wyrm encounter, give the bandits/gaurds a push/slide power so that they can slide the PCs into the walls of crates and the traps. Have no clue what that would be like to stat up or implement...

Cheers,
E

I run a game with 8+ players.. got to 11 players at the table last session so I had to split half the group off to a new game
I am running a converted WoBS and we are in Castle Korstull, module #6...

...still wishing Ranger Wickett would send me a copy to 'proof-read'

My rough guidelines for encounter building are:
Use the DMG templates
Solo's from level -6 to level +2
Elites from level -6 to level + 4
Standard monsters and minions from level -6 to level +6

Soldiers at -2 level from normal

For each player above 5, add a standard monster or equivilent. {5 minions, re-usable trap/terrain, additional action to current monster}

I ran the dinner party in the Castle against 11 PCs {13th level} with Lord Gorquith {14th Elite}, Findle the Bard {15th Elite}, and 9 Ghouls {12th}... friggin awesome fight. I almost killed the ranger and everybody was bloodied by the time they took down the last hungry dinner guest.

Let me know how that tracking software works.. I ended up guessing at the Ghouls hit points as I lost track of which one was which {don't tell my players!}

A huge thanks to Erywin for the link to that software!! I noticed it while browsing the forum pulling down maps in game prep for my game Saturday, downloaded it, and decided it needed more up-front work than I could give (about 10 minutes before the game started). Then we got a call from a player that he was running about an hour late, and I spent that time inputting stats for Magic Mayhem and the Gauntlet - and I am so glad that I did! For once, my brain didn't hurt as much at the end of the game from maintaining my little Excel cheat sheet that I normally use for battles - and this was even on very little sleep (little one woke me up at 4 AM ) The thing that just blows me away is how functional it is - definitely designed by a GM, for GMs