Ampersand: Martial Rituals in Martial Power 2

FireLance · Sep 4, 2009

Okay, the technical term is "martial practices", but you get the essential idea.

Ampersand said:
Beyond the exploits for which they're famed, martial adventurers can push the bounds of what is possible for ordinary mortals by mastering challenging techniques called martial practices. Using these rare methods, an adventurer can run for days, swim to great depths, and even create magic items. Although martial practices approach what's possible with rituals, they exist wholly in the realm of martial power.

The article lists three sample martial practices: alter ego (for assuming a disguise), precise forgery (like it says on the can), and speech without words (communicate with a creature who doesn't speak your language).

DDI subscribers can read the entire article here.

thecasualoblivion · Sep 4, 2009

Omfg!! Awesome!!

FireLance · Sep 4, 2009

My initial reactions:

1. They are more exclusive than rituals since you need to actually have a martial class to use martial practices, whereas anyone with training in Arcana or Religion can take the Ritual Caster feat. This strikes me as unnecessarily restrictive. One possible house rule is that anyone who is trained in the key skill used by the martial practice can gain access to it even if he does not have a martial class.

2. There is some attempt to reduce the usage cost of martial practices by making some of them cost only healing surges. However, I am not sure that it goes far enough to address the underlying problem of practices (and rituals) being too specific, so much so that many players feel that spending character resources on them is like buying insurance instead of acquiring an interesting ability.

3. Nonetheless, they are an intriguing concept and I would like to see more.

darjr · Sep 4, 2009

awwww... no linky back to enworld. :<

Kinneus · Sep 4, 2009

I really don't like this. The whole idea of 'martial magic' makes me groan. The whole set-up feels cheesy... why should making a really convincing disguise for your buddy make you weaker (drain a surge)? Also, the listed examples seem like something better accomplished through skill challenges.
It's not exactly like martial classes are suffering, anyway. Why should they get their own super-secret, credibility-straining rituals?
EDIT: Although, I have to admit that martial classes simply aren't my bag, so it might just be a personal taste issue.

Henry · Sep 4, 2009

FireLance said:
My initial reactions:

1. They are more exclusive than rituals since you need to actually have a martial class to use martial practices, whereas anyone with training in Arcana or Religion can take the Ritual Caster feat.

Well, anyone with a multiclass feat for a martial class would qualify, so it would have the same cost as ritual casting, would it not? (I don't have DDI anymore, so there might be more to the practices, such as needing an additional feat for the martial practices itself) - otherwise, a 1 feat entry barrier is on the same level.

gribble · Sep 4, 2009

Kinneus said:
I really don't like this. The whole idea of 'martial magic' makes me groan.

I really don't like them either, but for another reason: They are treading on the toes of roleplaying & skill checks/challenges.
Of the three examples given:

Create a disguise:I would rule this as a simple Bluff vs Insight check, or perhaps skill challenge if particularly important or involved.
Forge a document:Again, a simple Thievery vs Perception/Insight check.
Communicate without speaking a common language:I'd probably just roleplay this out, or if need be treat it as a skill challenge.

Now there are official rules for each of the above in print (or will be as of MP2), and those official rules are that the way to perform the above tasks is to take a feat, spend money learning the "practice", and then spend money and/or surges each time you want to perform them.
Makes me sad.

Fallen Seraph · Sep 4, 2009

I for once was able to call it for something WoTC would implement in the future. Been hoping for non-magical rituals for a while now. Overall, I like them, and Healing Surges is a good cost I think for these (especially given how open Healing Surges are). I hope there is a wide-grouping of them in MP2.

As far as stepping on Skill Checks/Skill Challenges toes go. I don't really think they do, in that Skill Checks and such are in my eyes for this more sort of spur of the moment, off the top of the PC heads kind of deal. Martial Practises on the other hand are set down methods of performing a task. There are two unique feels for both.

gribble · Sep 4, 2009

Henry said:
Well, anyone with a multiclass feat for a martial class would qualify, so it would have the same cost as ritual casting, would it not?

Nope. Two feats - one for the martial MC and then a second for the Practiced Study feat. The Practiced Study feat does have the advantage that it comes with one "pre-learned" practice.

Cadfan · Sep 4, 2009

gribble said:
I really don't like them either, but for another reason: They are treading on the toes of roleplaying & skill checks/challenges.

Agreed.

To work well, these need to allow you to do something you simply cannot do with a regular skill check. If that's the case, then its basically just an extra way to use a skill that you can gain by spending a feat. Which is cool by me.

As such:

Alter Ego: Mixed feelings. Its good that disguising yourself costs materials and so on, but I'd have allowed it with a simple makeup kit and a bluff check. I'd want specialized training that costs a feat to grant you something special. Like maybe if regular disguises couldn't imitate specific people, but this training regimen permitted you to do so. I guess this training lets you disguise an ally, which is cool.

Precise Forgery: I'm ok with this one. Forgery seems sufficiently specialized to be its own feat.

Speech without Words: I think this one is ok since its functionally an auto success you can purchase with a feat.

What I really don't like is the healing surge cost. It will probably make sense for some trainings, since spending a healing surge sometimes reflects strenuous effort over time. But I'm not sure it works for all of the examples given. And I can't see much reason to worry about people using their martial trainings all day without rest just because they can. First, the ones listed so far aren't the sort of thing you'll want to do all day. Once you've forged all the documents you need, you stop, right? Second, the time it takes to complete the task is an inherent limiting factor. It takes a full hour to disguise someone using Alter Ego. That's an inherent limit on how often you'll use it.

I'll probably drop the healing surge requirement.

My biggest problem with these is that it doubles down the old bind- do I spend a feat on combat power, or on a fun skill ability? Siloing is good. Feats kind of fail at siloing.