Two questions.

FurryFighter

First Post
Marks, divine challenge, etc.

each class has its own version of marking the target, and a question was brought up as to whether marks can be made by characters of different classes without affecting those put on by another class, like say, divine challenge.

So, can marks from different classes theoretically stack under the rules, since I read that as a special, marks cant be overwritten by the marks of others (doesnt specifically say "unless of a different class"), or you applying your own again.

RPGA sanctioned games.

Do they require the use of tiles and so on, or at least some method of describing distance and spatial relationships on a grid? The one I went to tonight for 4e neglected to use any sort of mapping system, which means we basically were saying "we get in its face and slice", which doesn't make sense to me, given that the majority of powers have a very specific range that needs a grid for them to make any working sense, and then there are feats as well, that increase move speed, help you throw weapons or shoot weapons farther, and so on. It seems like the bulk of 4e's combat play would be rendered near useless, or at least watered down.

I think most of the players that came today that didnt feel like using grid and coordinate system via tiles n minis, or a piece of paper with gridlines and some markers, probably came from earlier editions of the game, because their response to my asking about laying out the grid for combat was that it would take less time to do without.

As I just joined this group, is this something I should bring up beforehand next time to only the DM? Is this something to bring up at all? On the one hand, its not what I wanted to play, and I was expecting to develop my character in terms of feats and abilities that helped me in the grid system, like say, shadow reach or whatever drows get that increase their racial ability ranges and size of attack, and such feats are now useless. Of course that means more power game because I dont have to spend feat points, but that wasnt the design of the system, and doesnt feel like it adheres to the rules that would allow it to be RPGA sanctioned.

On the other hand, im new, and I enjoyed myself well enough, its just unexpected, but perhaps I should let sleeping dogs lie, or find myself another group?
 
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aurance

Explorer
Marks:

"A creature can be subject to only one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark that was already in place."

RPGA:

I don't really know, since I've never played in an RPGA game, but I'd expect that there would be an incredibly high amount of tactical ambiguity in playing 4e without a grid of some sort.
 

Nebten

First Post
RPGA doesn't mandate a grid system be use, but I honestly have only been to 1 game (out of hundreds) that we played without a map. Even then all the players said that was fine since the battles were simple and quick.

The game you played is in the minority. Almost all 4th ed games, RPGA or not ususally have some some of maping system. But under RPGA it isn't in the rules that a map needs to be supplied by the DM. It looks like you played under special circumstances, but I would double check with the DM to see if this will be the standard.
 

Dice4Hire

First Post
1. The general rule is that marks override each other. There are some exceptions, but not many.

3. As for the RPGA group, I just do not know the actual rules, but I imagine that the RPGA encourages tiles, and indeed, 4E is specifically built to be used on a grid, as you said. Ranges, AOE, etc.

As for quitting the group, talk to the DM and see what he/she says about it. Asking cannot hurt, but, as you said, if they seem resistant to the idea of maps then it might be an uphill struggle. I would tend to agree with your position with 4E, that it is a far worse play experience without the grid, but if they are fast and loose with the grid, then choose your feats and magic items accordingly. Ignore pushing/sliding and such and stock up on things like save bonuses or resistances. It could still be a fun game even with the handicap of not having a grid.
 

Tai

First Post
While marks don't stack, it is worth mentioning that a single monster can be hit by a mark, a hunter's quarry and a warlock's curse, since they aren't marks (well, except for the mark) ^^

Playing 4th without the grid seems to be a huge waste of most of the development that's gone into it. However, if you do want to play that way, play a character that requires combat advantage, like a brutal scoundrel, and just assume you have it at all times. And whatever you do, don't play a fighter - I dunno how the DM intends to deal with his marks or attacks of opportunity...
 

Ryujin

Legend
The 'marks' that are superceded by another 'mark' of the same type have it stated in their rules text. The targeting from different classes generally doesn't interfere. The only real question that I have myself, is regarding the Fighter and Warden. Both actually refer to their targeting feature as a Mark.

I've been using figures in D&D since the late '70s anyway, so it's second nature to me. I got tired of players saying things like, "If I'd known that, I wouldn't have been there!" and, "I'm not next to X, I'm over beside Y." In 4e the game's mechanics almost require the use of a grid, due to the way that various aspects of play are described. I couldn't imagine playing without it.
 

radja

First Post
there are no different marks. a paladin's mark is the same as the fighter's mark or any other mark. the method of marking is different though, and the power used to mark someone can have additional effects (like the paladin's marking power, which marks and can cause damage). marked is a specific condition, and is listed in the PHB as suh.
 

Ryujin

Legend
there are no different marks. a paladin's mark is the same as the fighter's mark or any other mark. the method of marking is different though, and the power used to mark someone can have additional effects (like the paladin's marking power, which marks and can cause damage). marked is a specific condition, and is listed in the PHB as suh.

Except that the only explicit statement under Warlock's Curse is that two Warlocks can't have the same target cursed. The new 'mark' doesn't supersede. Divine Challenge does, however, use the same language as does the Fighter's Combat Challenge, which I had not noted before.
 

abyssaldeath

First Post
Except that the only explicit statement under Warlock's Curse is that two Warlocks can't have the same target cursed. The new 'mark' doesn't supersede. Divine Challenge does, however, use the same language as does the Fighter's Combat Challenge, which I had not noted before.

Warlock's Curse is not a mark.
 


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