[Weekend Design] New Classes? - Page 6
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  1. #51
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    Zealot seems like a Barbarian / Bard hybrid. With a Turn Undead that makes Paladins cry.


    Also, being a Baseline isn't a bad thing. It means that you are the standard against which all others must be measured. That's not a slight or insult.
    Last edited by ValhallaGH; Thursday, 28th April, 2011 at 02:47 PM.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by ValhallaGH View Post
    Zealot seems like a Barbarian / Bard hybrid. With a Turn Undead that makes Paladins cry.
    On hybrid-ism, I don't see the relevance. Unless you're saying that this is no different to playing a multi-class barbarian/bard?

    Paladins are already crying (or not) over the cleric's turn/rebuke undead, so one more class having access to that will hardly be affecting their mental health.

    Quote Originally Posted by ValhallGH View Post
    Also, being a Baseline isn't a bad thing. It means that you are the standard against which all others must be measured. That's not a slight or insult.
    You seem to have interpreted me as a 'class partisan'. Actually, I was trying to be objective. With regard to the fighter, the bold claim is obviously false from a Trailblazer design perspective. (The game's class 'baseline' is an abstract, though if any class comes close, it's barbarian.) I argued (briefly) that it's also false from a world building perspective. In my view, it's wrong-headed or odd ('bad') to make false claims about something.

  3. #53
    I have had a fairly long think about the arcane half-caster who engages in armed combat. We have four editions of heritage for this character: d&d's elf, 1e's fighter/wizard, 2e's kits (most infamously, the bladesinger), 3e's profusion of magic/melee classes and arcane archer. IMO, making this a predominantly melee class violates that heritage (it's fine for characters with levels in the class to focus on melee, but it shouldn't be a basic class function). That does, of course, make the name a bit harder to come up with. I'm going to plump for gish. In D&D circles, it no longer means a githyanki with a specific combination of classes. Gish has come to be as generic a term as 'fighter', and I think it's fine for it to be just as specific. ("Hey, my monk is a 'fighter', too!"),

    Getting the class features right is giving me fits. To save ValhallaGH the time, it seems like a hybrid Fighter/Monk/Ranger/Wizard with certain class features that make the Paladin cry. Seriously, though: there are good reasons to opt for 'original combination' rather than 'original design'. It makes balancing features and classes easier, and helps players learn how new classes work.


    Gish

    Basic progression
    HD: d8
    BAB: 3:4
    BMB: 1:2

    The gish's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Acrobatics (Dex), Craft (Int), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Spellcraft (Int).

    Skill points per level: 4 + Int modifier
    Class features
    Weapons and Armor Proficiency: Gishes are proficient with all simple and martial weapons. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields. Armor of any type interferes with the gish's movement, which may cause his spells with somatic components to fail.

    Spellcaster: At 1st level, the gish gains access to all the spells on the wizard spell list. To ready or cast a wizard spell, a gish must have an Intelligence score equal to 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a gish's spell is 10 + the spell's level + the gish's Intelligence modifier. He receives bonus spell slots and ready spells per rest if he has a high Intelligence score.

    A gish's base magic bonus is equal to half his level. A 1st level gish with a base magic bonus of +0 is only able to cast 0th level spells, which take effect at a minimum caster level of 0.

    Focused: When wearing medium or heavy armor, or carrying a shield, a gish is no longer focused. A gish who is not focused loses access to many of his class abilities, including his focused bonus, arcane stance, arcane warrior, and possibly the feats gained from martial training.

    While he is focused, the gish gains a bonus to caster level checks equal to half his class level (rounded up).

    Arcane Stance: When focused, a gish adds his Intelligence bonus (if any) to his AC. In addition, a gish gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five gish levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).

    The bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the gish is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, and when he is not focused.

    Arcane Warrior: A gish can use his magic to enhance his attacks a certain number of times per rest. At 1st level, the gish chooses either Arcane Armament or Spellstrike.

    • Arcane Armament (Sp): As a standard action, the gish temporarily enchants a weapon he is holding. This grants it a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage. This ability lasts for one round per class level. If the weapon leaves the gish's hand, the effect ceases immediately.
    • Spellstrike (Su): The gish channels arcane energy into his attacks, gaining a +1 bonus to hit, dealing an additional 1d6 damage, and treating his weapons as magical for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. This ability lasts one round.

    The gish can use this ability once per rest. At 5th level, and every 5 levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th), the gish gains an additional use per rest, up to a maximum of five uses per rest at 20th level.

    Martial Training: At 2nd level, a gish gets a bonus feat. The gish gains an additional bonus feat at 4th level and every four gish levels thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th). These bonus feats must be drawn from the following list of bonus gish feats:
    Combat Casting, Dodge, Far Shot, Greater Manyshot, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Precise Shot, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Manyshot, Mobility, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run, Spring Attack, Superior Two-Weapon Fighting, Swift Spell, Two-Weapon Defense, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus
    As long as the gish is focused, he can ignore the Dexterity prerequisites of any of his martial training bonus feats. A gish who is not focused loses access to those feats. The gish must still meet all other prerequisites of the chosen feat, including base attack bonus and other feats.

    Steeled Mind (Ex): A gish of 3rd level or higher gains a +2 bonus on Will saves to resist enchantment spells. This bonus stacks with all other modifiers.

    Improved Arcane Warrior: At 5th level, a gish's arcane warrior bonuses improve.

    • Improved Arcane Armament: The enhancement bonus is increased to +2. The weapon deals an extra 1d6 acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage (the type is chosen by the gish each time the ability is used, and may not be switched during its duration).
    • Improved Spellstrike: The bonus to hit increases to +2, and the bonus damage dice increase to 2d6. Any creature the gish damages must make a Will save (DC 10 + half the gish's level + the gish's Intelligence modifier) or be dazed.

    Martial Focus (Ex): At 6th level, a gish gains martial focus with a chosen specific weapon (for example, glaive, longbow, or rapier). When attacking with the chosen weapon, the gish gains +1 to damage. This increases to +2 at 13th level, and +3 at 20th level.

    Arcane Stride (Sp):
    A 7th level gish can magically transport a short distance once per rest. The gish arrives at any empty space he can see within 60 feet. This movement takes no time and does not move the gish through any other squares. The gish can bring objects (but not creatures) so long as their combined weight does not exceed his maximum load. Using arcane stride is a swift action.

    The gish gains an additional use per rest of arcane stride at 15th level.

    Greater Arcane Warrior: At 9th level, a gish's arcane warrior bonuses improve.

    • Greater Arcane Armament: The enhancement bonus is increased to +3. In addition to the 1d6 bonus damage, the weapon deals an additional 1d10 points of damage of that type on a critical hit. If the weapon's critical multiplier is x3, add an extra 2d10 points of damage instead, or, if the multiplier is x4, add an extra 3d10 points.
    • Greater Spellstrike: The bonus to hit increases to +3, and the bonus damage dice increase to 3d6. Creatures that fail their saves are stunned as well as dazed.

    Arcane Adjustment (Su): Beginning at 10th level, a gish can incorporate more magic into his attacks.

    • Adjusted Armament: Using arcane armament on a weapon that already has an enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls is a swift action.
    • Adjusted Spellstrike: When he uses spellstrike, a gish may use one of his spell slots to increase his bonus damage dice. He gets an extra d6 for each level of the spell slot used.

    Superior Arcane Warrior: At 13th level, a gish's arcane warrior bonuses improve.

    • Superior Arcane Armament: The enhancement bonus increases to +4.
    • Superior Spellstrike: The bonus to hit increases to +4, and the bonus to damage increases to 4d6.

    Exceptional Arcane Warrior: At 17th level, a gish's arcane warrior bonuses improve.

    • Exceptional Arcane Armament: The enhancement bonus increases to +5. The gish may enchant two weapons at once. If he only enchants one weapon, it grants him an additional attack when he takes a full attack action.
    • Exceptional Spellstrike: The bonus to hit increases to +5, and the bonus to damage increases to 5d6. The ability now lasts for two rounds.

    Notes
    It is important that the gish can use most of their class features while wearing mithral chainmail. If I've somehow failed to let them do this, please let me know and I'll go have a cry, then fix it.

    The bonus from focused reflects the gish heritage of casting on the defensive. (3.5's bladesinger was even better at doing this!) It also means that spell resistance won't be too crushing.

    Martial training takes into account the gish's MAD. (They can dump Charisma and probably Wisdom - everything else is important to them.) I haven't given them the full fighter array.

    Steeled mind is a tip of the hat to the races that are most associated with this class.

    Arcane warrior kicks in every time the gish doesn't gain a BAB. Greater spellstrike dazes and stuns because some creatures can't be stunned. (I can't think of anything that can't be dazed. I'm comfortable with the gish dazing constructs and undead.)
    Last edited by Vespucci; Sunday, 1st May, 2011 at 12:23 PM.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespucci View Post
    On hybrid-ism, I don't see the relevance. Unless you're saying that this is no different to playing a multi-class barbarian/bard?
    Paladins are already crying (or not) over the cleric's turn/rebuke undead, so one more class having access to that will hardly be affecting their mental health.
    What I'm trying to say was that the class seems to fail to fill its intended niche.
    It's not a divine-touched martial class. It's a Cleric with a permanent Divine Power spell, and a charge-based Bless instead of normal spell-casting.
    Honestly, I'd start by dropping the Turn Undead; Barbarians can't talk to animals. Musashi would Great Cleave through zombies, and de Soto would lock them in the town of rebellious heathens.

    By contrast, I like the Gish. The name is terrible but the class seems solid. It does things that no other class can do, with a similar mechanic to a balanced class. Obviously, we've got to see the special abilities to make a final judgement, but it seems like a good start.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by ValhallaGH View Post
    What I'm trying to say was that the class seems to fail to fill its intended niche.
    It's not a divine-touched martial class. It's a Cleric with a permanent Divine Power spell, and a charge-based Bless instead of normal spell-casting.
    Honestly, I'd start by dropping the Turn Undead; Barbarians can't talk to animals. Musashi would Great Cleave through zombies, and de Soto would lock them in the town of rebellious heathens.
    I'll have a think about alternate features.

    The main reason for giving them Turn Undead (regardless of effectiveness) is to open up the Divine feats. (I'm guessing that the zealot using Divine Might and Divine Vengeance is much less controversial.) It's possible to do that more directly, or to give them a unique class feature that 'counts as' Turn Undead.

    Do I also detect a certain reluctance for martial classes to hand out buffs? It doesn't strike me as something outside of the character's thematic niche, but perhaps it is mechanically unsound. (You might be thinking that the zealot couldn't do the job of another martial character on his own. Even if you weren't, it's a fair complaint.)

    Quote Originally Posted by ValhallaGH View Post
    By contrast, I like the Gish. The name is terrible but the class seems solid. It does things that no other class can do, with a similar mechanic to a balanced class. Obviously, we've got to see the special abilities to make a final judgement, but it seems like a good start.
    Yeah, I think that too. But there is a terrible lack of generic terms for that kind of character.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespucci View Post
    Do I also detect a certain reluctance for martial classes to hand out buffs?
    Not at all. I really liked the idea behind the Marshal class (miniatures handbook), just not the implementation. It irks me to no end that a 20th level "specialist" class can be outdone by generic 10th level Cleric. CoDzilla.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by ValhallaGH View Post
    Not at all. I really liked the idea behind the Marshal class (miniatures handbook), just not the implementation. It irks me to no end that a 20th level "specialist" class can be outdone by generic 10th level Cleric. CoDzilla.
    OK. Thanks for the feedback. I've re-written most of the class features for the zealot to make him into his own man, and cashed out the gish class features.
    Last edited by Vespucci; Sunday, 1st May, 2011 at 11:31 AM.

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