Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Bestiary Preview II

Roman · Sep 17, 2009

Now that the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary Preview II has been released, does anybody have any thoughts about it?

mach1.9pants · Sep 17, 2009

Well I am impressed they knocked it up in about 24 hours!

I am so liking the art, and the Bone Devil looks top, a fave of mine.

Still not diggin the little images next too the names: idea good, but complex images mean they are not easy to tell at a glance.

Drkfathr1 · Sep 17, 2009

I'm really liking the artwork and the stat blocks seem much improved with PF.

I have to agree on the icons...nice idea but not real useful. Too many and too small to be much good for reference.

CleverNickName · Sep 17, 2009

(Link to the goods)

Yay for new info on the universal monster abilities, like Whirlwind, Stench, Telepathy, and Change Shape! Yay for more subtype info! Yay for the stirge artwork!

I'm intrigued by the "advanced monster template" mentioned on pg. 14. (Ghasts are described as "ghouls with the advanced monster template.") Advancing monsters in 3.5 wasn't too terrible, but it could get cumbersome with intelligent or spellcasting monsters. I can see where a template could make this a lot easier. Alas, no such template is provided in this preview.

I get the feeling that the monsters of Pathfinder have changed quite a bit from the 3.5 Edition. Universal monster abilities, templates for advancement, linking BAT to HD...I think the Bestiary might be full of surprises.

an_idol_mind · Sep 17, 2009

CleverNickName said:
I'm intrigued by the "advanced monster template" mentioned on pg. 14. (Ghasts are described as "ghouls with the advanced monster template.") Advancing monsters in 3.5 wasn't too terrible, but it could get cumbersome with intelligent or spellcasting monsters. I can see where a template could make this a lot easier. Alas, no such template is provided in this preview.

The template you're looking for is in the first Bestiary preview.

CleverNickName · Sep 17, 2009

an_idol_mind said:
The template you're looking for is in the first Bestiary preview.

The templates in there seem to be shorthand versions of the actual templates...more about quickly converting a 3.5E monster, than developing new PF monsters. I'm thinking (hoping?) that the Advanced Creature template in the Bestiary will be a little more detailed and in-depth, like the Zombie template. It would be nice to have a template that covers size increases, for example, or CR increases greater than +1.

On the other hand, maybe this is just one more way that they have simplified the rules. Not necessarily a bad thing, I guess.

Jadeite · Sep 17, 2009

CleverNickName said:
The templates in there seem to be shorthand versions of the actual templates...more about quickly converting a 3.5E monster, than developing new PF monsters. I'm thinking (hoping?) that the Advanced Creature template in the Bestiary will be a little more detailed and in-depth, like the Zombie template. It would be nice to have a template that covers size increases, for example, or CR increases greater than +1.

On the other hand, maybe this is just one more way that they have simplified the rules. Not necessarily a bad thing, I guess.

The template for size increase is also in the first bestiary preview (as 'Giant Creature'). I'd say the advanced creature template in the preview is the complete version. What's missing at this point are the rules for advancing a creature's hit dice.

pawsplay · Sep 17, 2009

The Bestiary should shed some additional light. For instance, right now the heavy warhorses uses the "quick version" of the advanced template on a horse. That's important, because the rebuild version would give it +4 Intelligence... either the advanced template works differently with animals, or there is a similar but different template for them.

James Jacobs · Sep 17, 2009

CleverNickName said:
The templates in there seem to be shorthand versions of the actual templates...more about quickly converting a 3.5E monster, than developing new PF monsters. I'm thinking (hoping?) that the Advanced Creature template in the Bestiary will be a little more detailed and in-depth, like the Zombie template. It would be nice to have a template that covers size increases, for example, or CR increases greater than +1.

On the other hand, maybe this is just one more way that they have simplified the rules. Not necessarily a bad thing, I guess.

The "Advanced template" really is that simple. Add 2 points to the monster's AC, add 2 hp/HD, and then add 2 to every d20 roll you make using the monster's stats. That's it. It works really really well in play, actually, and is quite easy to apply during a game. There is no "more complicated" version of the actual Advanced template in the Bestiary.

Sort of.

There IS a quite extensive appendix in the Bestiary that talks about how to advance monsters. The simple templates we showed off in the first preview are one of FOUR ways to advance monsters. The other three methods:

1) Templates. Things like the lich, the lycanthrope, and the ghost remain relatively complex templates you can apply to monsters to make them tougher; these templates appear in the body of the book in alphabetical order with all the monsters.

2) Adding Class Levels. There's rules and guidelines for how to toughen up monsters by giving them class levels; this pretty much works the same as it did in 3.5, but we're more explicit on what classes work best with each monster.

3) Adding Hit Dice. This is the largest section of the "Advancing Monsters" appendix in the Bestiary, and it's where you'll go if you want to adjust an existing stat block's hit dice or size to make a tougher (or wimpier) monster. This appendix more or less replaces the need for each monster having its own "Advancement" line in its stats, and is pretty handy if you, say, want a 34 HD Gargantuan bulette. Basically... this is the one you'd use if you want to advance a monster to any CR you want. Supporting these rules, of course, is an even LARGER appendix that lays down all the rules and guidelines and advice for creating brand new monsters.

James Jacobs · Sep 17, 2009

pawsplay said:
The Bestiary should shed some additional light. For instance, right now the heavy warhorses uses the "quick version" of the advanced template on a horse. That's important, because the rebuild version would give it +4 Intelligence... either the advanced template works differently with animals, or there is a similar but different template for them.

Correct. This is somewhere I fear we could have been a bit more clear on how the simple templates work. The quick version and the rebuild version give the same basic results, but there are times when the rebuild version needs a heavy dose of common sense to go along with it. Animals you rebuild using the Advanced template shouldn't gain a +4 Intelligence, for example. Of course... if you like the idea of particularly intelligent animals in your game, then you WOULD want to do that. Up to you!