3rd Party Products - Do You Care?
- Thread starter GnomeWorks
- Start date
wayne62682
First Post
I would like to care, but I've never, ever played in any game that would allow non-WotC sourcebooks to be used. As a DM I would look to more "fluffy" 3rd party books to borrow for background material for fleshing out a campaign, but I can't say I would allow actual crunch-based rules; most 3rd party books are either complete crap or mega overpowered (Mongoose, I'm looking at you).
For adventures, then I would definitely look to 3rd parties, especially if they were full-on adventure paths.
For adventures, then I would definitely look to 3rd parties, especially if they were full-on adventure paths.
I typically don't even consider 3pp. For 3e, the only exception I made was for Paizo's Shackled City AP. For 4e, the only exception I foresee making is for War of the Burning Sky. My problem with what 3pp material I have viewed was that it was either too niche for my tastes or inconsistent quality.
I have the impression that the 3pp improved over time and it does seem that the early publishers were not the same ones putting out material in the last 4 years. If that is the case, we might expect the early 4e material to not be great, but then improve over time. Or not, considering the considerable differences between OGL and the GSL.
I have the impression that the 3pp improved over time and it does seem that the early publishers were not the same ones putting out material in the last 4 years. If that is the case, we might expect the early 4e material to not be great, but then improve over time. Or not, considering the considerable differences between OGL and the GSL.
malkav666
First Post
When my group was playtesting 4e we used zero 3pp product. This mainly had to do with the DDI sub we were sharing at the time and the character builder being the preferred method to make toons. But I think some of the very gamist design of 4e and the wording of the GSL (at lest the orginal one) may be prohibitive to the kind support that 3e saw. From what I am seeing from the 4e folks I am reading from online is this is not an issue for many of their core audience.
In 3.x I bought a LOT of 3pp stuff. Not so much right in the beginning. But about midway through the edition I picked up the pace as the flavor of the 3pp stuff was usually better. The rules were not always spot on, but I cannot think of a single 3pp product that had an option that just could never be allowed to live. Some of them (many of them in fact) had to have minor adjustments to fit into the game I would be running. But making those adjustments is part of what I really enjoy as a storyteller/DM.
My groups have gone on to Pathfinder. And the level of 3pp support in my groups is the same if not better. I play with the PF groups and have seen no less than 4 copies of the Tome of Secrets that GM mentioned (one of them being my own personal copy). I hear rumblings from on the of the players in my group about running the newest N. Logue lessen in punishment and evil in the spring when the flowers start to bloom. I have seen some 3pp spell cards at one table (not sure who made them, but they looked good and there is interest I will ask the player about it).
I can safely say that unless money is prohibitive or Paizo does something to lose some of the folks I group with as players as customers and they want to play something else (in which case I will ablidge them, as the game has never been as important as the time spent with friends to me), that these groups will continue to make 3pp purchases. I know I will buy 3pp stuff if it looks like a product I would be interested in.
love,
malkav
In 3.x I bought a LOT of 3pp stuff. Not so much right in the beginning. But about midway through the edition I picked up the pace as the flavor of the 3pp stuff was usually better. The rules were not always spot on, but I cannot think of a single 3pp product that had an option that just could never be allowed to live. Some of them (many of them in fact) had to have minor adjustments to fit into the game I would be running. But making those adjustments is part of what I really enjoy as a storyteller/DM.
My groups have gone on to Pathfinder. And the level of 3pp support in my groups is the same if not better. I play with the PF groups and have seen no less than 4 copies of the Tome of Secrets that GM mentioned (one of them being my own personal copy). I hear rumblings from on the of the players in my group about running the newest N. Logue lessen in punishment and evil in the spring when the flowers start to bloom. I have seen some 3pp spell cards at one table (not sure who made them, but they looked good and there is interest I will ask the player about it).
I can safely say that unless money is prohibitive or Paizo does something to lose some of the folks I group with as players as customers and they want to play something else (in which case I will ablidge them, as the game has never been as important as the time spent with friends to me), that these groups will continue to make 3pp purchases. I know I will buy 3pp stuff if it looks like a product I would be interested in.
love,
malkav
jasonbostwick
Explorer
This, especially the Eberron point (however moot it is). WotC has made more (high quality) player oriented material than I or my players will ever use.
I want adventures that aren't straight Dungeon Crawls and aren't Adventure Paths. I run campaigns by stringing together a bunch of small plots, and I get burnout and just end up rehashing the same tropes if I write my own adventures.
The H-P-E series and Dungeon have had some nice adventures, but I haven't really gotten much use out of them. The Delve Format is a nice idea but doesn't work for me - so much space devoted to encounters is a waste for me, because I run small groups and have to refit them all anyway.
An excellent example of the kind of adventure I want more of is Nicholas Logue's Chimes at Midnight series - a small self-contained arc with a good event-based plot.
I'd buy adventures like that in a heartbeat, no matter who published them.
JeffB
Legend
I've bought some stuff from Goodman-modules- and will continue to do so. Most have been worth the $- a couple clunkers, but the majority I like or at the least are easy to canibalize.
I was one of those people who was really worried about the (lack of) 3rd party support for 4E until I started seeing what WOTC was putting out. I've yet to be disappointed in the "2s" or the supplemental books I've purchased- I'm not usually a buyer or user of much extraneous "crunch" outside the core 3 books for D&D, but I've found all the 4E books I've bought useful or have been inspirational enough to want me to incorporate it into my games. Then there is the DDI which I grudgingly subscribed to a few months back, and I'm finidng stuff in there thats useful as well- whether it's the occasional adventure here or there (like say the new FR ine this month), or a fluff writeup, or simply the crunch of books like AV.
Bottom line- for my tastes and needs the current WOTC offerings are fantastic- I like the game, I like the style of products, I like the balance between crunch/fluff, I think the design team is doing a bang up job and I've been supporting WOTC for the first time since 3.5 was introduced. I have not really missed 3PP materials at all. Now, I'd love to see some good modules from Necromancer and the JG materials like Tegel manor, or sandboxy "classic/oldschool" type adventure products, but I've no use for 3PP splat products like 3.x was overbloated with.
I was one of those people who was really worried about the (lack of) 3rd party support for 4E until I started seeing what WOTC was putting out. I've yet to be disappointed in the "2s" or the supplemental books I've purchased- I'm not usually a buyer or user of much extraneous "crunch" outside the core 3 books for D&D, but I've found all the 4E books I've bought useful or have been inspirational enough to want me to incorporate it into my games. Then there is the DDI which I grudgingly subscribed to a few months back, and I'm finidng stuff in there thats useful as well- whether it's the occasional adventure here or there (like say the new FR ine this month), or a fluff writeup, or simply the crunch of books like AV.
Bottom line- for my tastes and needs the current WOTC offerings are fantastic- I like the game, I like the style of products, I like the balance between crunch/fluff, I think the design team is doing a bang up job and I've been supporting WOTC for the first time since 3.5 was introduced. I have not really missed 3PP materials at all. Now, I'd love to see some good modules from Necromancer and the JG materials like Tegel manor, or sandboxy "classic/oldschool" type adventure products, but I've no use for 3PP splat products like 3.x was overbloated with.
Glyfair
Explorer
One "Adventure Path" does not make a "line of adventures." Rather, it is a "line of adventure." Get me some adventures outside of the adventure path, and I'll grab some.You make me feel very sad.
Ok, is it that weird that I know about Adamant's PF products yet of the entire list of 4e-products, the only ones I recognize was both Wraith Recon and Goodman's modules?
Seriously, there are _THAT_ many 4e products?
Bloody hell, where have I been?
I wonder if having paizo actually advertising/selling the compatible products on their front page actually helps get that product out in front of the people that most likely would buy it....
Seriously, there are _THAT_ many 4e products?
Bloody hell, where have I been?
I wonder if having paizo actually advertising/selling the compatible products on their front page actually helps get that product out in front of the people that most likely would buy it....
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