Reviewing, Revising, and Finalizing Prehistoric Animals and Dinosaur Ecology

In addition to the Phantasy Prehistorium thread on fictional stuff for a prehistoric campaign setting world called Nym, other posted creature stats will be refined here for a full-spectrum of a prehistoric ecology. This forum will be for reviewing, revising, and statting prehistoric animals and dinosaurs of our real-world history, primarily based on popular scientific knowledge about them.

Okay, one thing I want to start with is how I will be organizing it, so that we don't get the priorities wrong. I understand that in our own history these creatures occurred in particular epochs, but that is actually not the primary way I will be organizing, although that information is nonetheless helpful for creature statistics as they will be finalized for writing (a comprehensive pdf file of OGL and non-OGL content, and potential publication and web media) including those stats.

So here's a suggestion: write the era/epoch (named) if you wish, but specifically the range numbers of years BCE the creature existed on earth, right at the top somewhere below the name. If you wish, call the stat, 'Epoch:' or 'BCE:' and everyone else will have to copy you because you will have made a decision I am not willing to make.

The only decision I have made in this regard is that I will be organizing them as a list of ecology tables, such as the ones in the DMG, pp. 96-98, organized by environment, CR, and regional percentage - in addition, they will each have a region map in their final published stats, and many will have celestial, anarchic, and/or axiomatic versions of them. There will be lots of pretty pictures - is the hope.... Even if I have to all of them myself by hand.... Ok, computer.
-will

The current index:
Acanthostega
Acrocanthosaurus
Acrocanthosaurus ver. 2
Aepycamelus (formerly Alticamelus)
Ambulocetus
Amebelodon
Ammonite
Amphicyon
Anancus
Anatotitan
Anatotitan ver. 2
Anchisaurus
Anchisaurus ver. 2
Andrewsarchus
Anhanguera
Ankylosaurus
Anomalocaris
Anoplotops Ferox
Apatosaurus
Archaeoceratops
Archaeopteryx
Arctognathus
Argentavis
Argentinosaurus
Arthropleura
Auroch
Avimimus
Baiji
Bambiraptor
Baryonyx
Basilosaurus
Beelzebufo
Beipiaosaurus
Belemnite
Bellusaurus
Brachiosaurus
Brachiosaurus ver. 2
Brontornis
Brontotherium
Cacops
Camarasaurus
Camptosaurus
Carcharodontosaurus
Carnotaurus
Carnotaurus ver. 2
Castoroides
Castoroides ver. 2
Cave Hyena
Centrosaurus
Ceratosaurus
Cetiosaurus
Charonosaurus
Clidastes
Clidastes ver. 2
Coelacanth
Coelodonta
Coelophysis
Coelurus
Compsognathus
Cretoxyrhina
Cynodont, Tiny
Cynodont, Small
Cynodont, Medium
Cynognathus
Dacentrurus
Daeodon
Dakosaurus
Daspletosaurus
Deinogalerix
Deinosuchus
Deinosuchus ver. 2
Deinotherium
Desmatosuchus
Diademodon
Dicynodon
Diictodon
Diplocaulus
Dilophosaurus
Dilophosaurus ver. 2
Dimetrodon
Dimetrodon ver. 2
Dimorphodon
Dinichthys
Dinichthys ver. 2
Dinornis
Dire Owl (Tyto Gigantea)
Dodo
Dodo ver. 2
Doedicurus
Dromornis
Echinochimaera
Edaphosaurus
Edmontosaurus
Ekaltadeta
Elasmotherium
Eogyrinus
Eogyrinus ver. 2
Epanterias
Epigaulus
Eryops
Eryops ver. 2
Eryops ver. 3
Erythrosuchus
Eshanosaurus
Estemmenosuchus
Estemmenosuchus ver. 2
Euchambersia
Euchambersia ver. 2
Euparkeria
Eurypterid
Eustreptospondylus
Exaeretodon
Gasosaurus
Gerrothorax
Giant Eurypterid
Giant Orthocone
Giant Titanoboa
Giganotosaurus
Giganotosaurus ver. 2
Gigantopithecus
Gigantoraptor
Giraffatitan
Gomphotherium (Shovel-Tusker)
Gorgosaurus
Gorgosaurus ver. 2
Hallucigenia
Halticosaurus
Hatzegopteryx
Helicoprion
Herrerasaurus
Hippopotamus Gorgops
Huayangosaurus
Hyaenodon
Hypsilophodon
Hypsilophodon ver. 2
Hyracotherium
Icthyosaurus
Iguanodon
Iguanodont
Inostrancevia
Inostrancevia ver. 2
Kannemeyeria
Kentrosaurus
Kentrosaurus
Keratocephalus
Kolponomos
Koolasuchus
Kronosaurus
Kronosaurus ver. 2
Kronosaurus ver. 3
Lambeosaurus
Leedsichthys
Leptictidium
Lexovisaurus
Liopleurodon
Little Bush Moa
Lycaenops
Lycaenops ver. 2
Lycognathus
Lystrosaurus
Maiasaura
Mamenchisaurus
Mamenchisaurus ver. 2
Mammoth
Mapusaurus
Masiakasaurus
Massospondylus
Mastodonsaurus
Megalania
Megalania Prisca
Megaloceros
Megalosaurus
Megantereon
Meiolania
Mesosaurus
Microceratus Queen
Microceratus Sentry/Breeder
Microceratus Worker
Micropachycephalosaurus
Microraptor
Monoclonius
Mononykus
Moropus
Mosasaurus
Moschops
Moschops ver. 2
Neanderthal
Nodosaur, Large
Nodosaur, Huge
Nothosaurus
Nothosaurus ver. 2
Ophiacodon
Ophiacodon, Advanced
Ornimegalonyx
Ornitholestes
Ornitholestes ver. 2
Ornithomimus
Ornithomimus ver. 2
Ornithosuchus
Ouranosaurus
Oviraptor
Pachycephalosaurus
Pachyrhinosaurus
Panoplosaurus
Paracyclotosaurus
Parasaurolophos
Pawpawsaurus
Pelorovis
Pentaceratops
Phorusrhacos
Piatnitzkysaurus
Pinacosaurus
Placerias
Placerias ver. 2
Placerias ver. 3
Plateosaurus
Plateosaurus ver. 2
Platyhystrix
Postosuchus
Prenocephale
Priscileo
Procoptodon
Prosaurolophus
Protoceratops
Psittacosaurus
Pteranodon
Pteranodon ver. 2
Pterodactylus
Pyrenean Ibex
Quetzalcoatlus
Repenomamus
Rhynchosaur
Robertia
Saltasaurus
Saurolophus
Scelidosaurus
Scutellosaurus
Scutosaurus
Segnosaurus
Shantungosaurus
Shonisaurus
Shonisaurus
Shunosaurus
Shuvuuia
Simosuchus
Sinocalliopteryx
Sinornithosaurus
Sinraptor
Sivatherium
Smilodon
Smilodon ver. 2
Sphenacodon
Spinosaurus
Spinosaurus ver. 2
Stagonolepis
Stegosaurus
Steller's Sea Cow
Stethacanthus
Stokesosaurus
Stomatosuchus
Struthiomimus
Struthiosaurus
Stygimoloch
Styracosaurus
Styracosaurus ver. 2
Styracosaurus ver. 3
Suchomimus
"Super Predator" (Carcharodontosaurus, Giganotosaurus, Saurophaganax, Tyrannosaurus Baatar, Tyrannosaurus Rex)
Tanaconda
Tanystropheus
Tanystropheus ver. 2
Tanystropheus ver. 3
Tapejara
Teleosaurus
Temnodontosaurus
Teratosaurus
Terrestrisuchus
Thalattosaurus
Therizinosaurus
Therizinosaurus ver. 2
Therizinosaurus ver. 3
Thylacine
Thylacoleo
Thylacoleo
Thylacosmilus
Tiktaalik
Titanosaurus
Titanosuchus
Titanosuchus ver. 2
Torosaurus
Torvosaurus
Troodon
Tsintaosaurus
Tullimonstrum
Tyrannosaurus Rex
Tyrannosaurus Rex ver. 2
Uintatherium
Uintatherium ver. 2
Utahraptor
Utahraptor ver. 2
Velociraptor
Venatraraptor
Vulcanodon
Wakaleo
Xiaosaurus
Xiphactinus
Yangchuanosaurus
Zuniceratops


Skills
Scent Tracking (Survival)

Feats
Confusing Trail
Foe of the Scaled
Gnash
Greater Toughness
Horrific Roar
Impenetrable Natural Armor
Prehistoric Affinity
Primal Spell
Primal Yell
Primeval Druid
Primeval Shape
Slay the Gigantic

xidoraven said:

In addition to the Phantasy Prehistorium thread on fictional stuff for a prehistoric campaign setting world called Nym, other posted creature stats will be refined here for a full-spectrum of a prehistoric ecology.

Click to expand...

A good way to start would be reworking the SRD Dinosaurs (Velociraptor, Megaraptor, Elasmosaurus, Triceratops & Tyrannosaurus) since they are pretty poorly designed - especially in their abundance of useless Toughness feats. The Megaraptor is both redundant (being an upscaled Velociraptor) and inaccurate (since they're killing claws were on their hands, not their feet).

I whipped up some "revised" SRD dinosaurs a while back and I might as well share them. Most cleave reasonably close to the official 3E stats, so some are arguably not all that true a reflection of the real life animals.

xidoraven said:

So here's a suggestion: write the era/epoch (named) if you wish, but specifically the range numbers of years BCE the creature existed on earth, right at the top somewhere below the name. If you wish, call the stat, 'Epoch:' or 'BCE:' and everyone else will have to copy you because you will have made a decision I am not willing to make.

Click to expand...

That wouldn't seem very useful unless you're having a dinoworld with creatures from different geological ages in different areas - e.g. a "Cretaceous Continent" were all the Triceratops and Tyrannosaurs live.

Plus, there's probably a lot of overlap statwise with some of the dinosaurs. Triceratops, for example, only lived at the very end of the Cretaceous (65-70 million years ago or 'MYA'), but its 3E stats could easily be used for any other Ceratopsian of equivalent size.

Oh, and I like MYA over BCE or writing "65 million years before the modern age".

Building a Better Deinonychus

Deinonychus Redux
Early Cretaceous (115-110 MYA)
Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 4d8+12 (30 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (+2 Dex, +4 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+7
Attack: Talons +7 melee (1d10+3)
Full Attack: Talons +7 melee (1d10+3) and 2 foreclaws +2 melee (1d3+1) and bite +2 melee (2d4+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Pounce
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +6, Will +2
Abilities: Str 17, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +8* [+16 in undergrowth], Jump +21, Listen +6, Spot +6, Survival +6
Feats: Run, Track
Environment: Warm forests or plains
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (3–6)
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 5 (Medium); 6–8 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: —

A Deinonychus is bright green along its back and flanks, with a much lighter shade of the same colour on its underside. The body has darker spots or stripes. Its tail extends straight out behind itself, held aloft by an intricate structure of bony supports, thus allowing its weight to be carried entirely by the back legs. It stands 6 feet tall and weighs about 300 pounds, with a total length of 16 feet. [Note this is somewhat larger than the real-life version]

Combat
A Deinonychus uses a combination of speed, grasping forearms, large teeth, and hind legs with ripping talons. It hunts by running at prey, leaping, and ripping with its rear talons as it claws and bites. The talons count as one attack. A Deinonychus has a relatively large brain for a dinosaur, and its pack hunts with cunning tactics.

Pounce (Ex): If a Deinonychus charges, it can make a full attack.

Skills
A Deinonychus has a +4 racial bonus on Hide, Jump, Listen, Spot, and Survival checks.

*Its racial bonus to Hide increases to +12 in undergrowth.

Building a Better Megaraptor (Utahraptor version)

Utahraptor (Megaraptor Redux)
Early Cretaceous (130-120 MYA)
Large Animal
Hit Dice: 8d8+40 (76 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (–1 size, +2 Dex, +5 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+15
Attack: Talons +9 melee (2d8+6)
Full Attack: Talons +9 melee (2d8+6) and 2 foreclaws +7 melee (1d4+3) and bite +7 melee (2d6+3)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Pounce
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +8, Will +4
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 15, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +5* [+13 in undergrowth], Jump +24, Listen +8, Spot +8, Survival +8
Feats: Run, Multiattack, Track
Environment: Warm forests or plains
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (3–6)
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 9–11 HD (Large); 12–16 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: —

This creature is a larger relative of the Deinonychus that stands about 9 feet tall, with a total length of 24 feet and an average weight of 1000 pounds. It has the same appearance, habits, and abilities as its smaller cousin.
Combat
A Utahraptor uses a combination of speed, grasping forearms, large teeth, and hind legs with ripping talons. It hunts by running at prey, leaping, and ripping with its rear talons as it claws and bites. The talons count as one attack. A Utahraptor has a relatively large brain for a dinosaur, and its pack hunts with cunning tactics.

Pounce (Ex): If a Utahraptor charges, it can make a full attack.

Skills
A Utahraptor has a +4 racial bonus on Hide, Jump, Listen, Spot, and Survival checks.

*Its racial bonus to Hide increases to +12 in undergrowth.

Building a Better Elasmosaurus

Elasmosaurus Redux
Late Cretaceous (95-65 MYA)
Huge Animal
Hit Dice: 10d8+60 (105 hp)
Initiative: +6
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), swim 50 ft.
Armor Class: 13 (–2 size, +2 Dex, +3 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 11
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+22
Attack: Bite +13 melee (1d10+10)
Full Attack: Bite +13 melee (1d10+10)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft. (20 ft. with bite)
Special Attacks: Improved grab, swallow whole
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +15, Ref +11, Will +4
Abilities: Str 25, Dex 14, Con 22, Int 1, Wis 13, Cha 9
Skills: Hide –4*, Listen +4, Spot +9, Swim +15
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Warm aquatic
Organization: Solitary, pair, or herd (5–8)
Challenge Rating: 7
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 11–20 HD (Huge); 21–30 HD (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment: —

Though it resides primarily in the water, an Elasmosaurus only breathes air. An Elasmosaurus has a total length of some 40 feet, including a neck half as long as its entire body, and weighs about 10,000 pounds. Observers who see only its head or tail might easily mistake it for a massive snake.

Combat
An Elasmosaurus only hunts prey small enough for it to swallow, but will defend itself aggressive if it feels itself to be threatened. The creature is strong, fast, and highly maneuverable, able to turn quickly and lunge at prey. When hunting, it travels with its head out of the water, snapping down quickly to seize prey.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, an Elasmosaurus must hit an opponent of up to one size smaller with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round.

Swallow Whole (Ex): An Elasmosaurus can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of up to three sizes smaller by making a successful grapple check. The swallowed creature takes 2d8+7 points of bludgeoning damage and 8 points of acid damage per round from the Elasmosaurus’s gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 11). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out.

A Huge Elasmosaurus’s gizzard can hold 8 Small, 32 Tiny, or 128 Diminutive or smaller opponents.

Skills
An Elasmosaurus has a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks. It can always choose to take 10 on a Jump or Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.

*An Elasmosaurus has a +8 racial bonus on Hide checks in water.

Building a Better Megaraptor (take 2)

Megaraptor Redux
Late Cretaceous (90-85 MYA)
Huge Animal
Hit Dice: 12d8+60 (114 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (–2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+24
Attack: Bite +15 melee (2d6+8) or claw +15 melee (1d10+4)
Full Attack: Bite +15 melee (2d6+8) and 2 claws +13 melee (1d10+4)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +13, Ref +10, Will +6
Abilities: Str 27, Dex 15, Con 21, Int 1, Wis 15, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +2* [+10 in swamps or undergrowth], Listen +10, Spot +10, Survival +9
Feats: Multiattack, Run, Track, Weapon Focus (bite), Weapon Focus (claw)
Environment: Warm forests or swamps
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 13-20 HD (Huge); 21–30 HD (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment: —

A Megaraptor is a predatory dinosaur with oversized claws on its hands. Its statistics can be used for similar large-clawed carnivorous dinosaurs, such as Baryonyx or Spinosaurus.

A typical adult Megaraptor stands about 12 feet tall, with a total length of 30 feet. It weighs 4000 pounds or so.

Combat
A Megaraptor seeks to grab hold of an opponent and tear it apart with their claws and teeth. They usually hunt prey smaller than themselves.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a Megaraptor must hit with a claw or bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Skills
A Megaraptor has a +4 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, Spot, and Survival checks.

*Its racial bonus to Hide increases to +12 when it is submerged in swamps or thick undergrowth.

Building a Better Triceratops

Triceratops Redux
Late Cretaceous (70-65 MYA)
Huge Animal
Hit Dice: 16d8+112 (184 hp)
Initiative: –1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (–2 size, –1 Dex, +11 natural), touch 7, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+30
Attack: Gore +20 melee (2d8+15)
Full Attack: Gore +20 melee (2d8+15)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Powerful charge, trample 2d12+15
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +19, Ref +9, Will +6
Abilities: Str 30, Dex 9, Con 25, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 7
Skills: Listen +13, Spot +12
Feats: Alertness, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Run, Power Attack, Run
Environment: Temperate plains
Organization: Solitary, pair, or herd (5–8)
Challenge Rating: 9
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 17–24 HD (Huge); 25–32 HD (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment: —

A Triceratops has a body about 25 feet long and weighs about 15,000 pounds.

Combat
These creatures are likely to charge and skewer any creature of at least Large size that infringes on their territory. A Triceratops uses its trample attack on smaller opponents.

Powerful Charge (Ex): When a Triceratops charges, its gore attack deals 4d8+20 points of damage.

Trample (Ex): Reflex half DC 28. The save DC is Strength-based.

Building a Better Tyrannosaurus

Tyrannosaurus Redux
Late Cretaceous (70-65 MYA)
Huge Animal
Hit Dice: 18d8+126 (207 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (–2 size, +1 Dex, +9 natural) touch 9, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +13/+33
Attack: Bite +24 melee (3d8+18/19-20)
Full Attack: Bite +24 melee (3d8+18/19-20)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab, swallow whole
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +18, Ref +12, Will +10
Abilities: Str 34, Dex 12, Con 25, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +8* [+12 in undergrowth], Listen +10, Spot +12, Survival +10
Feats: Alertness, Improved Critical (bite), Iron Will, Power Attack, Run, Track, Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Warm plains
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 8
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 19–24 HD (Huge); 25-36 HD (Gargantuan)
Level Adjustment: —

Despite its enormous size and 6-ton weight, a Tyrannosaurus is a swift runner. Its head is nearly 6 feet long, and its teeth are from 3 to 6 inches in length. A typical adult specimen is between 30 and 40 feet long from nose to tail.

Combat
A Tyrannosaurus pursues and eats just about anything it sees. They are surprisingly stealthy, and often hide in wait for passing prey. Its tactics are simple—charge in and bite.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a Tyrannosaurus must hit an opponent of up to one size smaller with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round.

Swallow Whole (Ex): A Tyrannosaurus can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of up to two sizes smaller by making a successful grapple check. The swallowed creature takes 2d8+12 points of bludgeoning damage and 8 points of acid damage per round from the Tyrannosaurus’s gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 14). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out.

A Huge Tyrannosaurus’s gizzard can hold 2 Medium, 8 Small, 32 Tiny, or 128 Diminutive or smaller opponents.

Skills
A Tyrannosaurus has a +4 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, Spot, and Survival checks.

*Its racial bonus to Hide increases to +8 in undergrowth.

Cleon said:

The Megaraptor is both redundant (being an upscaled Velociraptor) and inaccurate (since they're killing claws were on their hands, not their feet).

Click to expand...

Okay, this was the primary thing I wanted to raise, and everything else was second after this thought: Megaraptor is actually not in the same genus as Velociraptor, Deinonychus, or Utahraptor at all - it is actually a closer relative to Spinosaurus, a large carnosaur. The claw is on the front appendages because it is not even the same evolutionary framework as the famed hind-leg 'raptor claw'.

I believe the Wikipedia article on it raises that point, but I know I read it somewhere when I was considering the basis of the dinopriminal, the Raptorinal (which utilizes the Utahraptor - a true 'raptor' family member, before anthropomorphosis).

Think somewhat less large spinosaurid with a huge front claw and a significantly less prominent spinal crest in place of a sail.

A good way to start would be reworking the SRD Dinosaurs (Velociraptor, Megaraptor, Elasmosaurus, Triceratops & Tyrannosaurus) since they are pretty poorly designed - especially in their abundance of useless Toughness feats.

I whipped up some "revised" SRD dinosaurs a while back and I might as well share them. Most cleave reasonably close to the official 3E stats, so some are arguably not all that true a reflection of the real life animals.

That wouldn't seem very useful unless you're having a dinoworld with creatures from different geological ages in different areas - e.g. a "Cretaceous Continent" were all the Triceratops and Tyrannosaurs live.

Plus, there's probably a lot of overlap statwise with some of the dinosaurs. Triceratops, for example, only lived at the very end of the Cretaceous (65-70 million years ago or 'MYA'), but its 3E stats could easily be used for any other Ceratopsian of equivalent size.

Oh, and I like MYA over BCE or writing "65 million years before the modern age".

Click to expand...

Okay, so now to business. First off, wow - you came in with a bang. I wasn't expecting a reply so quickly, though I should have.

I was going to make a second posting to create an index of creatures after my first, but I will instead have to shift the info on the first posting elsewhere and post it there instead (UNLESS of course you would like to be the archivist in charge of keeping an up to date Index posting in your posting of #2, and shift one dinosaur down).

So to make it clear and taking in your comments, there are a few things every posting about a dino/prim should have:

1. Consistent 3.5 stats (MMI formatted; not that Forgotten Realms crud, please) are to be determined utilizing OGL content and/or a specific feat, skill use, or ability that is clearly outlined either in legally respectful writing/paraphrasing (please get permissions for everything questionable you find created by an independent creator or forum user). Everything on the WotC forum, Dinosaur Menagerie, and here on ENWorld is green lighted until further notice. (I will personally get permissions from authors later for player and creature-oriented new stats already outlined on Dinosaur Menagerie.) If you know about 4e and have the nerve I personally do not have to convert *cough* to the dark side *cough*, you may include them as a separate posting. Every 1000 or so postings we will create a new thread, as done in the conversions forum.
2. Toughness is way over done for feat use; extra hp is ridiculously useless in a large-scale, large-creature primitive ecology and evolution.
3. Take careful consideration when posting an Environment and Organization statistics - these should be reviewed (by Rappy/Raptorial, if possible). There is a lot of room for error here unless you do some research about the critter. Also, please don't allow an unreasonable gap in Organization stats (ie, Solitary[1], pair[2], and herd 8-10); account for the 3 to whatever gap is less than a herd or whatever else. These kind of creatures do not usually come in tactical units, though a symbiotic relationship may apply - provide this is an accompanying text below combat, including the other creatures (usually a swarm of some form, like bug-eating birds, or swarming insects); list as a separate section of text, but in Organization you could include something like "Solitary, pair, herd 3-8, and symbiotic canary birds (see text below)".
4. Don't include Level Adjustments (unnecessary for dinos/prims), even with a blank stat answer. Fictional creatures go to Phantasy Prehistorium (ie, Giant Dire Eomanis and Kaiju Eomanis, Eberron feaux dinos, etc.); not here.
5. Include a new stat: "Existed: ### MYA" listed as 'million years ago' and assumed to mean in real-world Earth's history (yes, those campaigns exist, and we are producing for them as well) - maybe below the name of the animal, or else where Level Adjustment usually goes - just not in the flavor text (which should be generic in that respect). Most users will be using these stats for fictional settings unrelated to Earth history, but it is nonetheless useful.
6. All flavor and/or descriptive text I want reviewed by Raptorial (user:Rappy on here) and his/her discussion participants.
7. There are amazing images out there, but please don't include them in the posting - a final art project will be undertaken to have the best outcome for the final product (web media included). After I get my wacom tablet, I will be doing some of them personally and I welcome rough draft suggestions by the artists themselves or members of DeviantArt or Elftown.com.
8. Though some popular dinos/prims have similar family members which might utilize the same stats, those should be limited to only genus members as the base race. All prioritized creatures here will be given stats if possible, and some race are necessary - all first priority are creatures already created needed thorough reviews and revisions. Variant 3.5 OGL creatures should include stats describing how they differ from the original OGL creature - all others statted normally (no need for Creatures as Characters or Society; Racial tendencies can be included in the body content if known or popularly assumed). Most priority creatures are present on the current WotC Index posting by Draco.
9. Please include fauna that you like, including invertebrates and aquatic or exotic races (designated either as animal, ooze or vermin), and any flora that you think would have specifically stat-worthy concept basis - but otherwise exclude plants and fungi. Please don't give us a walking, talking carnivorous plant - go the Prehistorium instead.
10. Our index should be alphabetical by popular genus/species name, each with its separate stat (so no "Super Predator" listing) - including name, CR, Environment, and Category (type of dino or prim = ie, Carnosaur, Sauropod, Avian, Herd Animal, Wild Beast, etc. - I will post these choices soon and describe each)

Good? Also, I liked the dinos you posted at first glance, but didn't really get a chance to dig at them. I will look at them tonight. If Rappy turns me down over here, I am screwed - I know it. I may just cry, to be honest. I don't know how I am going to get bhu over here either.
-will

xidoraven said:

Okay, this was the primary thing I wanted to raise, and everything else was second after this thought: Megaraptor is actually not in the same genus as Velociraptor, Deinonychus, or Utahraptor at all - it is actually a closer relative to Spinosaurus, a large carnosaur. The claw is on the front appendages because it is not even the same evolutionary framework as the famed hind-leg 'raptor claw'.

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No disagreement there, although in wizards' defense that was not common knowledge when they were statting up their version of Megaraptor as an oversized Dromeosaur.

Anyhow, I tried to resolve this problem by doing two takes on "Megaraptor", one as an oversized dromeosaur like an exaggerated Utahraptor (post #4) and the other as the Spinosaurus/Baryonyx formed version it probably was in life (post #6).

xidoraven said:

Okay, so now to business. First off, wow - you came in with a bang. I wasn't expecting a reply so quickly, though I should have.

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Well they were all creatures I had sitting on my hard drive, so it was just a question of doing some cut-and-paste and adding time periods.

I've got a few more somewhere on my computer, but a few of the older ones are in 3.0 format so will need some tweaking.

xidoraven said:

I was going to make a second posting to create an index of creatures after my first, but I will instead have to shift the info on the first posting elsewhere and post it there instead (UNLESS of course you would like to be the archivist in charge of keeping an up to date Index posting in your posting of #2, and shift one dinosaur down).

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I think you'd better do the indexing, since you know what you want from it. Perhaps you should stick it in the Ultimate Homebrew Index, or at least have a link to it in their.

xidoraven said:

So to make it clear and taking in your comments, there are a few things every posting about a dino/prim should have:

*SNIP*

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OK, that all looks pretty good.

One question though, what do we do about "non-historical prehistoric beasts". Things like man-eating pterodacytls with a 60 foot wingspan, which never existed in reality but are very common in fiction.

Obviously, we can't have an actual era or scientific name for them, since they never actually existed.