Using older adventures with 4E, Pathfinder, Trailblazer, etc. – how do you do it?

El Mahdi · Oct 11, 2009

Using older adventures with 4E, Pathfinder, Trailblazer, etc. – how do you do it?

It’s been pointed out in other threads, and I’ve encountered this myself a bit also, that converting older edition adventures to 4E or to houseruled systems (like Pathfinder, Trailblazer, etc.) can be a bit of a challenge due to some of the newer mechanics. For example, the existence of a “rest mechanic” can increase the long term capabilities of an adventuring party, from encounter to encounter, that older edition adventures were not written for or could have anticipated.

For those who have used older edition adventures, or adventures from completely different systems/companies, in their 4E or houseruled games (Pathfinder, Trailblazer, etc.): What problems, difficulties, or challenges have you encountered? What changes, tips, or tricks do you use when upgrading or converting older adventures for your use? What changes do you make to the structure of the adventure because of, or to adapt to, these new mechanics?

Please also list the edition or system you are using for play, and the edition or system of the adventure you converted.

Filcher · Oct 11, 2009

I think there might be an important nuance to recognize:

It is tough for publishers to make a polished adventure from an adventure written in a different system.

But at home? Cake. I am confident I could run Caves of Chaos 4E, on the fly, without prep. And I assume this doesn't just apply to 4E, but is true of most experienced DMs, regardless the system --- if you know a game well, you can intuitively anticipate the changes that need to be made to "mod on the fly" ...

... but that the product, while loads of fun, would not necessarily be suitable for transcription to a published adventure.

Thasmodious · Oct 11, 2009

I think the key is to ignore specificity. Just because the older module says there are 3 orcs in room 1b, does not mean the story requires 3 orcs to be in room 1b. Look at the older module in general ways, the general story, the general encounter layout, and look to how you can bring that over to the newer edition or system. You don't need to use the same numbers of monsters as the other one, or even the exact same creatures, if the level requirements are significantly different. Focus on maintaining the integrity of the story. Along a similar line, I find it useful to rewrite the adventure. Read it, know it well, then rewrite it with your own game/campaign in mind while you are redesigning it, shorthand of course. You know the story and the purpose, so keep it brief, but rewriting lets you put things in context of the edition/system you are playing without being distracted by notes and contextual trappings of the older format. The rest is just tips and tricks specific to the edition you are converting to (and what you are converting from).

For example, when converting things to 4e, consider combining rooms in a dungeon into larger encounters. 4e works well with large, spread out encounters. Hacking through four 20x20 rooms each with 3 orcs in it would be tedious and take ages. Instead, connect the four rooms as one substantial encounter of 15 orcs (some minions), with defensive strategies in place. PCs resting after a couple of standard 4e encounters is like PCs taking a rest after a half dozen encounters in an older edition.

El Mahdi · Oct 11, 2009

Filcher said:
I think there might be an important nuance to recognize:

It is tough for publishers to make a polished adventure from an adventure written in a different system.

But at home? Cake. I am confident I could run Caves of Chaos 4E, on the fly, without prep. And I assume this doesn't just apply to 4E, but is true of most experienced DMs, regardless the system --- if you know a game well, you can intuitively anticipate the changes that need to be made to "mod on the fly" ...

... but that the product, while loads of fun, would not necessarily be suitable for transcription to a published adventure.

I don't have a problem converting either. But, no matter how good a DM I am (or as good as I THINK I am

), there's always room for improvement.

But, not everyone finds conversion easy.

For those that can't intuitively anticipate changes, what advice do you have for adapting and modifying older adventures to newer editions and mechanics?

El Mahdi · Oct 11, 2009

Thasmodious said:
I think the key is to ignore specificity. Just because the older module says there are 3 orcs in room 1b, does not mean the story requires 3 orcs to be in room 1b. Look at the older module in general ways, ...snip... PCs resting after a couple of standard 4e encounters is like PCs taking a rest after a half dozen encounters in an older edition.

Thanks. Good stuff!

Ravellion · Oct 12, 2009

Thasmodious said:
I think the key is to ignore specificity.

The man with 666 posts is absolutely right

I am running age of worms 4e, and this is how I am doing it. I make a room twice as large and add obstacles, increase the number of creatures, those kind of things.

Dannager · Oct 12, 2009

I've published three full conversions of Paizo adventure path adventures to 4e at Tales from the Rusty Dragon. The blog itself has a lot of notes on the conversion process, if that's something you're interested in.

El Mahdi · Oct 12, 2009

Dannager said:
I've published three full conversions of Paizo adventure path adventures to 4e at Tales from the Rusty Dragon. The blog itself has a lot of notes on the conversion process, if that's something you're interested in.

Thanks for the link. I took a look at the blog but didn't see any notes or entries specifically about the conversion process. I'm assuming they're part of the actual conversion entries? :hmm:

I am saving the link though for reading. Looks like a good place to mine some ideas from.

I don't actually play 4E, but I do use some 4E'ish mechanics in my 3E games, such as action points, rest mechanics, etc. Pathfinder had already incorporated some of those into it's system also, at least to a certain extent, so Pathfinder to 4E conversion don't help as much. But, there may be some things there worth mining.

Although mostly just general advice, overall I think Thasmodious' post is probably going to help the most. I think getting a feel for how much you need to increase the difficulty of some encounters may just take time and practice. Until one get's a really good feel for it, one may just need to be able to adapt on the fly like Filcher said.

Thanks for the ideas guys.

Dragonbait · Oct 12, 2009

Thasmodious said:
I think the key is to ignore specificity. Just because the older module says there are 3 orcs in room 1b, does not mean the story requires 3 orcs to be in room 1b.

I'll echo this statement.
I tried to convert the Rod of 7 Parts adventures to 4E. Sometimes I tried to do a straight conversion and other times I just took the idea and used my best judgement. The encounters that were straight conversions never really challenged the PCs, combat-wise. One monster in a small room really can't do much. When I started to be more loose with the conversion, grouping multiple rooms into "Encounter areas" instead of the traditional 1 room = 1 encounter, things worked well.

ExploderWizard · Oct 12, 2009

I am running The 2E module: Return to the Keep on the Borderlands for my current 4E campaign. Its going great so far. The monster builder helps make the conversions easy. For encounter difficulty I just use stats that would provide roughly the same challenge as the original encounter would. Sometimes this means adding or removing monsters, and modifying others but it hasn't been a big deal.