Goliath Warden Build Help

sigfile · Jan 13, 2010

Thatwackyned said:
Sudden roots is a great feat, but not for my Board and Sword build. The baddies, when marked, attack me. Why leave and get the -3 to attack.

Three good reasons: Warlock, Wizard, and Sorcerer. Kobold skirmishers are *really* nasty when they flank somebody. Even with your supermark, two marked kobold skirmishers would be even-up to hit while flanking your wizard and would each do an extra d6 damage.

That being said, I don't think that Sudden Roots is going to be stunningly effective in this game. Kobolds are more likely to be shifting all over the battlefield rather than drawing opp attacks by running past the defender. If your DM allows Move + Minor (shifty) to be a double-shift, even Winter's Herald won't help you force opportunity attacks. If the campaign ever leaves the shifty little buggers behind, you should consider taking the feat.

Thatwackyned · Jan 13, 2010

Yah, they are Shifty. He's shifting them all over the place. But when marked, it's still more of an advantage to target me, than the squishies. For one thing, I have Wardens Fury if they are in reach and Warden's Grasp if with in 5. So why take the extra damage.

Sanzuo · Jan 13, 2010

Mistwell said:
I would not be taking improved init or toughness in your position. There are plenty of warden-specific feats that will do you better than either of those.

Sudden roots should be a fairly early choice, for example.

Why isn't toughness a good choice? Thatwackyned's warden is doing some hardcore defending in his group and the extra hp goes a long way to keeping him up, even if it's only for another round or two. There's no reason for him not to take it, especially by paragon.

While I'm at it, defenders usually have a number of powers that allow them to heal themselves. Since you're without a leader it's a little more important for you to keep yourself healed. Here's all the ones I could find up to paragon.

Triumphant Vigor - Lvl 2 Daily Utility. Small amount of healing for a daily and requires you to kill something, but it's something.
Wellspring Strike - Level 5 Daily Attack. A pretty powerful daily that gives you regeneration until the end of the encounter, you can also give the regeneration to an ally if you want.
Bear's Endurance - Level 6 Daily Utility. A free heal, meaning it heals you a surge without actually costing a surge which is good. Also it's an immediate action which means it goes off if your dropped to 0 or lower. Pretty cool power if you ask me.
Soothing Wind - Level 6 Daily Utility. Use your second wind as a minor action like a dwarf and gain a little extra hp.
Swift Recovery - Level 6 Encounter Skill Utility. Allows you to induce a second wind in an ally but not you.
Earth Gift - Level 7 Encounter Attack. You hit something and regain 10 hit points. Hm.
Form of the Storm Sentinel - Level 9 Daily Attack. Another free heal and it comes with regeneration. Also you get an attack with it that allows you to spend a healing surge whether you hit or miss.
Returning Strength - Level 10 Daily Utility. Healing surge plus a little extra. Not as good as a free heal.
Spiritual Rejuvenation - Level 10 Daily Utility. Regain the use of your second wind if you used it. Pretty good.

So you may want to consider some of these healing-type powers to keep yourself up and about.

Mistwell · Jan 13, 2010

Sanzuo said:
Why isn't toughness a good choice? Thatwackyned's warden is doing some hardcore defending in his group and the extra hp goes a long way to keeping him up, even if it's only for another round or two. There's no reason for him not to take it, especially by paragon.

Because we are not talking about a lot of hit points, relative to the other choices he can take to increase his defenderness. Toughness is best for those who will go down frequently without it. A warden already has the best HP in the game, and a Goliath Warden has even more than the normal one. They also have good AC, and he took a shield so he has even better AC. It seems like a really really low priority to focus on yet more hit points. It won't come up most of the time, while other feats can come up every single round.

Thatwackyned · Jan 13, 2010

Thanks Sanzuo, I'll be looking into those powers.

Is there any feat to increase my Defences?

I've taken the new Skill Utility power from players Handbook 3.

Endure Pain Endurance Utility 2
You grin and bear it, shrugging off the pain of a new wound.
Daily
Immediate Interrupt Personal
Trigger: You are hit by an attack
Effect: Until the end of your next turn, you gain resistance to all
damage equal to 5 + your Constitution modifier.

Anyting to give my more defence constant?

Sanzuo · Jan 14, 2010

You won't have anything available to you at heroic that merely raises your defenses all the time. It will all be situational. The only feat available to you now that helps your defenses is Markings of the Predator, which gives you +1 defenses when you bloody something. That, and defensive mobility.

Other ways to increase your defenses are with the items I mentioned earlier.

sigfile · Jan 14, 2010

Thatwackyned said:
Yah, they are Shifty. He's shifting them all over the place. But when marked, it's still more of an advantage to target me, than the squishies. For one thing, I have Wardens Fury if they are in reach and Warden's Grasp if with in 5. So why take the extra damage.

You're playing a sword'n'board warden. An *adjacent* kobold that attacks one of your allies is likely to get decked with Warden's Fury, taking damage and granting combat advantage to your allies. A kobold at any range from you is going to be slid, slowed, and blocked from shifting until the end of it's turn as a reaction to attacking an ally. You only get one of those a turn, and it's a rare day when you're facing down a lone kobold.

Look, it comes down to the DM. If your marked targets are always attacking you, that's great. Focus on survivability. If the DM is constantly looking to get the kobolds past you and in to the squishies' faces (and succeeding), you might need to get tricksy in return. That's where Sudden Roots starts looking attractive.

On the topic of survivability... I agree that toughness isn't *bad*, but five HP isn't going to make a huge difference. You'd probably be better off taking Student of Battle (multiclass Warlord) as someone suggested to earn a daily minor action heal.

The other approach would be to switch out for a warhammer (or take a craghammer proficiency feat) and start dishing out extra damage through feats like Crippling Crush, Courage of the Lone Stag, and Crushing Guardian. "Slowed" may not inconvenience kobolds a whole lot, but "dead" will certainly put a dent in their shifty tactics. That also increases the odds that Markings of the Predator (already suggested) will actually trigger for you, increasing your defenses (it's still not a great feat -- it only triggers when YOU bloody a creature -- but it is an option to buff your defenses). Once you hit high heroic, a Hammer Shield (also suggested earlier) will boost your defenses further.

Sanzuo · Jan 14, 2010

Depending on how his DM is handling treasure he could have a Hammer Shield as early as level 4!

Thatwackyned · Jan 14, 2010

I can't find Shield Hammer anywhere. Can you post the stats and the page/book to find it please. Thank you.

Sanzuo · Jan 14, 2010

Hammer Shield, not shield hammer. From the Adventurer's Vault 2. It's a shield enchantment that gives you an untyped +1 bonus to all defenses whenever you hit an enemy with a hammer.